Mustafa Suleyman

You talk about superintelligence.

Most of your rivals talk about AGI, artificial general intelligence.

Explain the difference between AGI and superintelligence.

You know, I think Jeff's got to a stage in his career where he can play the founding father contrarian role in order to provoke an important public conversation.

You know, obviously, I massively admire and respect Jeff.

I think he's incredible.

We hired him as a contractor consultant at DeepMind back in 2011, along with his student at the time, Ilya Satskiva.

So absolute legend of the field.

My take on this question is that it's going to be very hard for us to precisely say whether it is or whether it isn't conscious.

And so we have to be very clear about the working definition that we're using for consciousness.

And then we also have to be very clear about the mechanism inside these models that I think is quite fundamental to the definition.

So first of all, the definition, many people intuitively think of this as self-awareness.

Is the model able to describe its own experience in a persuasive way?

And I don't think that is really a fundamental part of the right definition of consciousness.

I think that's a bit of a misnomer.

I think consciousness is inherently linked to the ability to suffer and to experience pain.

And therefore, I think that there's very good reason to believe that for a long time to come, that will be contained to the human or the biological experience, let's say in general.

Because we have a reward system, a learning system, which is inherently connected to the external world.

And we, you know, learn likes and dislikes when our pain system is triggered.

And that's basically how we form representations, which we use for decision making from fight or flight all the way through to our prefrontal cortex.