Natalie Kitro-Eff

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitro-Eff. This is The Daily. Last week, financial markets went into a panic over an obscure Chinese tech startup called DeepSeek. That company now threatens to upend the world of artificial intelligence and the race for who will dominate it.

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitro-Eff. This is The Daily. Last week, financial markets went into a panic over an obscure Chinese tech startup called DeepSeek. That company now threatens to upend the world of artificial intelligence and the race for who will dominate it.

Kevin, if we really are past that point, you know, of containment here, if we're off to the races, does it matter that this innovation happened in China by a Chinese company? I mean, isn't this bigger than that at this point?

Kevin, if we really are past that point, you know, of containment here, if we're off to the races, does it matter that this innovation happened in China by a Chinese company? I mean, isn't this bigger than that at this point?

In a way, it kind of follows the normal progression of any new product, right? Like, at first it's expensive, and then more and more competition leads to innovation, the thing gets cheaper, everything becomes more democratized.

In a way, it kind of follows the normal progression of any new product, right? Like, at first it's expensive, and then more and more competition leads to innovation, the thing gets cheaper, everything becomes more democratized.

Kevin, thank you so much.

Kevin, thank you so much.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Saturday, President Trump declared tariffs of 25% on all goods from Canada and Mexico, with a partial carve-out for Canadian energy and oil exports. He also announced an additional 10% tariff on products coming in from China. The tariffs are set to take effect at 12.01 a.m.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Saturday, President Trump declared tariffs of 25% on all goods from Canada and Mexico, with a partial carve-out for Canadian energy and oil exports. He also announced an additional 10% tariff on products coming in from China. The tariffs are set to take effect at 12.01 a.m.

ET on Tuesday, and have raised concerns of an escalating trade war with America's largest trading partners. Those countries responded swiftly to Trump's announcement. The Canadian government detailed its own retaliatory 25% tariffs on more than $100 billion worth of U.S. goods, including everything from American-made honey, tomatoes, and whiskey to refrigerators and toilets.

ET on Tuesday, and have raised concerns of an escalating trade war with America's largest trading partners. Those countries responded swiftly to Trump's announcement. The Canadian government detailed its own retaliatory 25% tariffs on more than $100 billion worth of U.S. goods, including everything from American-made honey, tomatoes, and whiskey to refrigerators and toilets.

President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico said she would unveil her country's response on Monday, while China's Commerce Ministry promised to bring a legal case at the World Trade Organization and, quote, corresponding countermeasures. President Trump acknowledged on social media that his tariffs could cause, quote, some pain, but said it would be, quote, worth the price that must be paid.

President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico said she would unveil her country's response on Monday, while China's Commerce Ministry promised to bring a legal case at the World Trade Organization and, quote, corresponding countermeasures. President Trump acknowledged on social media that his tariffs could cause, quote, some pain, but said it would be, quote, worth the price that must be paid.

And in a new effort to tighten the immigration system, the Trump administration is ending temporary protected status for 300,000 Venezuelan migrants in the United States, according to government documents obtained by The Times. The move could make those migrants vulnerable to potential deportation in the coming months.

And in a new effort to tighten the immigration system, the Trump administration is ending temporary protected status for 300,000 Venezuelan migrants in the United States, according to government documents obtained by The Times. The move could make those migrants vulnerable to potential deportation in the coming months.

The designation of temporary protected status was meant to protect migrants fleeing dangerous situations in their home countries. But Republican critics have said it allowed migrants to stay in the United States for much longer than intended. Today's episode was produced by Shannon Lin, Claire Tennesketter, Alex Stern, and Caitlin O'Keefe, with help from Will Reed.

The designation of temporary protected status was meant to protect migrants fleeing dangerous situations in their home countries. But Republican critics have said it allowed migrants to stay in the United States for much longer than intended. Today's episode was produced by Shannon Lin, Claire Tennesketter, Alex Stern, and Caitlin O'Keefe, with help from Will Reed.

It was edited by Mark George and Chris Haxel, with help from Paige Cowett. Contains original music by Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie Kittroweth. See you tomorrow.

It was edited by Mark George and Chris Haxel, with help from Paige Cowett. Contains original music by Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie Kittroweth. See you tomorrow.

How cheap are we talking?

How cheap are we talking?

Okay, we're going to get to those questions of who this company is and how they did this. But I just first want to dig into the anatomy of the market panic. What are the real fears driving this?

Okay, we're going to get to those questions of who this company is and how they did this. But I just first want to dig into the anatomy of the market panic. What are the real fears driving this?

Today, my colleague Kevin Roos, a tech columnist and the co-host of the podcast Hard Fork, on how DeepSeek caught us all off guard. It's Monday, February 3rd. Hi, Kevin. Hello.

Today, my colleague Kevin Roos, a tech columnist and the co-host of the podcast Hard Fork, on how DeepSeek caught us all off guard. It's Monday, February 3rd. Hi, Kevin. Hello.

Yeah. And should I maybe be investing in balsa wood cars?

Yeah. And should I maybe be investing in balsa wood cars?

Kevin, it certainly seems that at least based on what DeepSeek is saying, it has managed to pull off a pretty impressive feat here. But I'm wondering, can we trust what the company says? Can we trust their claims about how they pulled this off?

Kevin, it certainly seems that at least based on what DeepSeek is saying, it has managed to pull off a pretty impressive feat here. But I'm wondering, can we trust what the company says? Can we trust their claims about how they pulled this off?

Okay, so let's talk about those engineering techniques. I mean, how actually did DeepSeq do this? Make a chatbot on a shoestring budget, potentially, with second-rate chips?

Okay, so let's talk about those engineering techniques. I mean, how actually did DeepSeq do this? Make a chatbot on a shoestring budget, potentially, with second-rate chips?

And it occurs to me, Kevin, that this company was operating under a lot of constraints. And it sounds like that may have forced the engineers to think about how to tackle this problem differently. As in, it seems possible that not having these critical ingredients actually bred innovation.

And it occurs to me, Kevin, that this company was operating under a lot of constraints. And it sounds like that may have forced the engineers to think about how to tackle this problem differently. As in, it seems possible that not having these critical ingredients actually bred innovation.

So, Kevin, how do the big American tech companies contend with that? I mean, what do they say to investors who are wondering about whether maybe these companies have been throwing money away when some of this work on these AI models could have been done much more cheaply?

So, Kevin, how do the big American tech companies contend with that? I mean, what do they say to investors who are wondering about whether maybe these companies have been throwing money away when some of this work on these AI models could have been done much more cheaply?

So let's jump in. Kevin, how did this giant AI tech freakout begin? Tell us that story.

So let's jump in. Kevin, how did this giant AI tech freakout begin? Tell us that story.

And for you, Kevin, I mean, obviously you've been covering this world for a very long time. Does that show you that more money doesn't necessarily mean more innovation in the world of AI where more money has been kind of a given, you know, as an assumption of what's needed? I mean, does it actually suggest that maybe smaller, as you said, scrappier startups could make huge gains in this world?

And for you, Kevin, I mean, obviously you've been covering this world for a very long time. Does that show you that more money doesn't necessarily mean more innovation in the world of AI where more money has been kind of a given, you know, as an assumption of what's needed? I mean, does it actually suggest that maybe smaller, as you said, scrappier startups could make huge gains in this world?

We'll be right back. Kevin, it sounds like DeepSeek has already or is about to really change the landscape of AI. And my question is, is that good? Like, for people like you and me, I mean, maybe you more than me, who use chatbots for consumers...

We'll be right back. Kevin, it sounds like DeepSeek has already or is about to really change the landscape of AI. And my question is, is that good? Like, for people like you and me, I mean, maybe you more than me, who use chatbots for consumers...

Kevin, if this really is that important of a moment in the global AI arms race, how should we expect the United States to react? I mean, does the U.S. government just ban this thing? You know, we saw TikTok banned because it was owned by a Chinese company. Is that the move here?

Kevin, if this really is that important of a moment in the global AI arms race, how should we expect the United States to react? I mean, does the U.S. government just ban this thing? You know, we saw TikTok banned because it was owned by a Chinese company. Is that the move here?