Natalie Kitroweth

So this is a huge victory for Miller. Another instance in which it's him against the world in what you said was this kind of uphill battle. He comes out on top. And yet Republicans in his own party, it sounds like, are still swatting him away like a fly. I mean, he's still an outsider, even among conservatives at this point.

So this is a huge victory for Miller. Another instance in which it's him against the world in what you said was this kind of uphill battle. He comes out on top. And yet Republicans in his own party, it sounds like, are still swatting him away like a fly. I mean, he's still an outsider, even among conservatives at this point.

Tell us about that.

Tell us about that.

It's interesting. It's like in Trump, Miller finds this ideological soulmate in a way and a guy who can really help move his vision from the fringes to the mainstream. And in Miller, Trump finds a workhorse who is willing to stay up all night and design a kind of campaign that appeals to voters.

It's interesting. It's like in Trump, Miller finds this ideological soulmate in a way and a guy who can really help move his vision from the fringes to the mainstream. And in Miller, Trump finds a workhorse who is willing to stay up all night and design a kind of campaign that appeals to voters.

Okay, so Donald Trump obviously wins. How does Miller start to put his imprint on the first term?

Okay, so Donald Trump obviously wins. How does Miller start to put his imprint on the first term?

It would be hard to overstate the impact of that policy. I mean, it literally reshaped the immigration system.

It would be hard to overstate the impact of that policy. I mean, it literally reshaped the immigration system.

For Miller, it sounds like this first term is kind of a mixed bag, right? I mean, he has a lot of success, as you just said, in reshaping some of the rules of the game on the issue he cares most about, immigration. But at the same time, his lack of West Wing experience and know-how gets in the way of achieving his full vision.

For Miller, it sounds like this first term is kind of a mixed bag, right? I mean, he has a lot of success, as you just said, in reshaping some of the rules of the game on the issue he cares most about, immigration. But at the same time, his lack of West Wing experience and know-how gets in the way of achieving his full vision.

We'll be right back. Jonathan, what did Miller do exactly during those four years to put himself in a position to more effectively execute his vision?

We'll be right back. Jonathan, what did Miller do exactly during those four years to put himself in a position to more effectively execute his vision?

What does that look like?

What does that look like?

Jonathan, it's not lost on me, obviously, that this guy who was made fun of at one point in Washington is now making friends in high places and really cultivating the kinds of allies that he needs. I mean, the richest guy in the world, for example, to make sure that he can wield his power efficiently. It sounds like he is actively trying to make up for strategic holes that may have been there.

Jonathan, it's not lost on me, obviously, that this guy who was made fun of at one point in Washington is now making friends in high places and really cultivating the kinds of allies that he needs. I mean, the richest guy in the world, for example, to make sure that he can wield his power efficiently. It sounds like he is actively trying to make up for strategic holes that may have been there.

in the first term.

in the first term.