Natalie Robomed

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at least what you're reporting uncovered is that allegedly her win was stripped.

Because she was sex trafficked and producers found out about that.

Am I oversimplifying it?

No, no, no.

So one of the things that was interesting in the Netflix documentary is that Tyra did participate.

According to the documentary's creators, she agreed to sit for an interview at the last minute.

At least as far as I see it, she does not come off well.

But I mean, what was your impression of Tyra and what she had to say for herself in this documentary?

Right.

I mean, it's very P.T.

Barnum, like all publicity is good publicity.

But it's really difficult because Tyra is somebody, if I look back at her career, there's no doubt she definitely had to overcome a lot.

The most generous reading of watching the show is that Tyra is trying to prepare the girls for the harsh experiences she's had in the fashion industry and toughen them up so that they can succeed.

But I think more often than not, looking back at it now, one gets the feeling that she's kind of being harsher to the girls or hazing them even.

The race swap episodes where she essentially...

put contestants in blackface and various other sorts of faces.

I mean, Tyra's defense is that she was expanding the idea of beauty.

You make the point in your podcast that actually the racial stereotypes continued throughout the entire series.

We've referred to it already, like, oh, that person had the angry black girl edit.

And I think that's part of what is so difficult about America's Next Top Model and about Tyra, is that at the same time as she is breaking down racial barriers in fashion, she's also upholding some really