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Infamous

Behind the Scenes of America’s Next Top Model

05 Mar 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What disturbing themes are revealed in America's Next Top Model?

0.031 - 23.035 Natalie Robomed

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23.796 - 66.049 Natalie Robomed

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67.463 - 91.654 Vanessa

Hello everyone, Vanessa here. I just wanted to come on for a second and say thank you so much for listening to our show. You are the reason that we get to make these episodes and put them out week after week. Yes, sometimes I know there's a rerun, but we take our time figuring out what you want to hear, what we are genuinely interested in, and, you know, putting the whole thing together for you.

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92.075 - 113.215 Vanessa

So this week, it is not a rerun. It is actually a breaking news story. As you know, we do breaking news sometimes. We'll do an Epstein series or we'll talk about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. But then we have another kind of episode, which is truly perennial. And it's things that we just think you will always be interested in.

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113.195 - 135.784 Vanessa

In fact, we think that so many of our stories are interesting today to listen to that we want to encourage you to go back in your feed, read the titles. I mean, I know this is mostly for people who are new to the show, but there's a lot of stuff in there that you can listen to when you're bored or driving or doing your laundry or, I don't know, deep cleaning your closet.

136.465 - 158.482 Vanessa

So take a gander through those titles and check something out. But this week, we are doing something that I guess you could call a bit of a breaking news story. It is about America's Next Top Model, which has been the biggest goss in the cultural sphere this month. There's a Netflix documentary, and we'll be talking about that. And some of you have probably seen it.

159.003 - 181.744 Vanessa

There's also a podcast you may have listened to called The Curse of America's Top Model. which is from host Bridget Armstrong and Glass Entertainment. Glass has brought you Betrayal, if you're also listening to that podcast. And there's even a new documentary that's going to have Janice Dickinson and a bunch of models on it talking all about America's Top Model coming out in a couple of weeks.

Chapter 2: How did Tyra Banks influence the contestants on the show?

181.724 - 203.755 Vanessa

So this week, we are talking to Bridget Armstrong to hear about her reporting on the show. I've listened to her podcast and I've watched some of the Netflix doc, and I have to say that I am totally horrified by the way that Tyra Banks was acting. I mean, these things are not just your normal pop culture doc or podcast where they just talk about, you know, how great it was back then.

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203.955 - 226.22 Vanessa

We're really getting a sense of what she did on the show, and it is not flattering. It sort of sounds like the people who are making the documentary wanted her to participate, but maybe she said no. And then they sort of boxed her in like they told her, oh, we've got all these other people who worked on the show talking to us. You better talk to us, too. But, you know, she didn't have final say.

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226.28 - 249.21 Vanessa

So I don't know. Those of you who have watched that Netflix doc probably have some opinions about that. whether it is sort of slow rolling some stuff to be friendlier to her or if it's really a fair assessment. But let's get to it. We have a lot to talk about about America's next top model this week on Infamous.

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259.805 - 281.172 Natalie Robomed

From Sony Music Entertainment and Campside Media, this is Infamous. I'm Natalie Robomed. I don't know if you remember watching America's Next Top Model, but I certainly do. It began airing in May 2003, when I was 12 years old, and like a lot of tween and teen girls, right from the get-go, I was glued.

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282.232 - 305.151 Natalie Robomed

America's Next Top Model was pitched as the real world meets American Idol, set in the fashion industry. Its mission, or so it claimed, was to turn regular girls into fashion superstars. Its host and creator was Tyra Becks, the green-eyed model who made her name as a Victoria's Secret angel and the first Black woman to cover the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.

305.35 - 310.498 Unknown

People said, oh, black girls aren't gonna be successful, you won't get any covers, no this, no that. And I proved them all wrong.

310.818 - 333.474 Natalie Robomed

And Tyra was impressive. She taught the girls how to smize, that is, smile with your eyes. She taught them how to pose. And she had a crew of judges, including Miss J and J Manuel, who taught them how to walk the runway and execute a great photo shoot. For most models, getting that supermodel stride isn't that easy. So who do they turn to for guidance? Jay Alexander.

333.735 - 338.383 Natalie Robomed

But there was a lot more going on behind the scenes, which is what we're talking about today.

Chapter 3: What are the most shocking moments from the Netflix documentary?

339.144 - 345.936 Natalie Robomed

You may have seen the new documentary about America's Next Top Model. It's called Reality Check, and it's a pretty wild watch.

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346.537 - 349.402 Bridget Armstrong

No one on the show knew what we were signing up for.

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350.137 - 356.911 Tyra Banks

Why are we filming this? This show wasn't meant to help us. It was meant to break us down. How many people were scared?

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357.112 - 381.053 Natalie Robomed

I always believed that she would have my back. I was ultimately proven wrong. In it, the filmmakers sit down with lots of former Top Model contestants, judges, and executives. who reveal what it was really like to be in the running to become America's next top model. From the body shaming. If the body could just slim down 150 pounds, that would be good. Then she'd be 30 pounds.

381.494 - 390.887 Natalie Robomed

That would be better. To the ludicrous photo shoots. We are actually going to switch your ethnicities. To the early 2000s reality TV shenanigans.

391.188 - 394.352 Unknown

I have extracted the fact that I'm a bitch. I've been caught everything in the book.

394.45 - 415.327 Natalie Robomed

There was a lot about Top Model that was really, really ugly. because at the same time that Tyra and the show claimed to be challenging beauty standards in the fashion industry, they were also upholding and reinforcing them. Last year, pop culture journalist Bridget Armstrong made a podcast all about the show's legacy and complexities.

416.008 - 428.76 Natalie Robomed

It's called Curse of America's Next Top Model, and it uncovered a lot of what has now bubbled to the fore. Bridget, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So when did you start watching America's Next Top Model?

Chapter 4: How did the contestants feel about their experiences on the show?

435.631 - 459.511 Bridget Armstrong

And I watched from the very first season. What did you like about it? Back in those days, reality TV was new, right? So there were shows like Big Brother, there was Survivor. And I watched those shows, but it was like, they weren't about things I was interested in. Top Model, however, combined all of my favorite things at the time. Makeup, modeling, and fashion.

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459.832 - 475.753 Bridget Armstrong

So it felt like something I could relate to, something I could aspire to. And at that time, a lot of the shows that were out were not necessarily for a young woman audience. So I think it was probably the first show, first reality show I watched that felt like it was for me.

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476.194 - 480.039 Natalie Robomed

For those who haven't seen it, can you describe what the show is like?

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480.52 - 498.882 Bridget Armstrong

So the premise is Tyra Banks, who at that time was coming off being one of the most recognizable and known supermodels ever. in the world. She's one of the very few, like out of two black supermodels. And she is the host of this show where she's going to pick and make the next top model.

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499.382 - 517.54 Bridget Armstrong

So girls from all over the country come to these auditions and Tyra Banks and her team of judges pick the girls that they thought had the best potential to become models. And at least on the first season, they would do these challenges every week where they have to pose in a bikini on top of a rooftop in the middle of February.

517.52 - 539.865 Bridget Armstrong

And the girl who had the worst photo or performed the worst was sent home. And each week, the girls were dwindled down. They started off with 10 until you had one. And then that girl was crowned top model. So these were girls that were just regular, degular, pretty girls. And they came on the show. And Tyra and her judges were teaching them to be models.

539.845 - 554.132 Bridget Armstrong

But what made it so interesting is that you also went back home with them, right? Like it wasn't like a American Idol where you see them sing, they get judged, and that's it. You also went back with them to the model apartment. And so you saw all the drama that happened when they weren't at a photo shoot.

554.153 - 562.208 Natalie Robomed

They were all living together in these apartments, or at least in season one, as you reported, this sort of shitty hotel room that they converted into apartments. Yeah.

Chapter 5: What were the consequences of the extreme makeovers on contestants?

562.188 - 584.851 Natalie Robomed

But yeah, I mean, part of what was so appealing to me, at least as a young viewer, was what you describe as this kind of Cinderella story, where it's these girls who seem regular, yes, pretty, maybe tall, but that they might become... supermodels is so exciting because it's this wish fulfillment for you where you're like, oh, wow, maybe that could be me too, you know?

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584.891 - 597.257 Natalie Robomed

And the makeover is really crucial too. They always have this sort of ugly duckling makeover where suddenly these girls just have their full potential unleashed and they come out looking gorgeous, kind of.

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598.385 - 618.225 Bridget Armstrong

Kind of. Sometimes it was a disaster. The Makeover episodes were my favorite. I think they were a lot of fans' favorite, right? Because you got to see these transformations that sometimes really were amazing, but you also got to see the meltdowns. I'm a little overwhelmed. I want to cry because the worst is already done.

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618.245 - 637.875 Bridget Armstrong

A girl who's worn her hair long or is a pageant girl, right, gets a pixie cut. You see a lot of botched hair color. People who've never had hair extensions getting a full sew-in. So it was like this mix of the fulfillment of seeing them blossom, but also this drama of people having to go through this change on camera.

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638.176 - 643.884 Natalie Robomed

So when did Top Model come back into your consciousness? I mean, did you keep watching it? Probably not.

644.104 - 666.373 Bridget Armstrong

No. So a lot of people, I don't think, realized Top Model went on as long as it did. It's 24 seasons. So I think most of us, a lot of fans that started in the early days, watched maybe the first 10 or 15 seasons in the early 2000s. I was one of those fans. But in 2020, people started rewatching the series from the beginning.

666.814 - 666.934

Right.

666.914 - 686.272 Bridget Armstrong

As people started pointing out some of the really shocking and sometimes disturbing stuff that happened on the show, I went back and watched some of those episodes. I don't know if you remember, but on TikTok, people were pointing out things that I remembered them as being a part of the show, but we were talking about them in a different context.

686.652 - 695.841 Bridget Armstrong

And so I would go back and watch like, wow, I remember Robin from season one. Robin was the only plus size model on that season. I remembered her, but I didn't remember...

Chapter 6: How did America's Next Top Model impact the modeling careers of its winners?

695.821 - 699.849 Bridget Armstrong

how poorly she was treated until I went back and watched around 2020.

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699.929 - 705.541 Tyra Banks

One problem that I do have with Robin, I think on the top she's not plus size and on the bottom she is.

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705.721 - 713.256 Unknown

It's clear that Robin doesn't have the personality to be a top model. She should be working at Avis.

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713.236 - 730.334 Bridget Armstrong

So when you started making your podcast, who did you talk to first? So we were working on this project in conjunction with another docuseries. It's actually coming out March 11th. It's about Top Model. It's called Dirty Rotten Scandals. So there were a few interviews that they'd done with some of the models.

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730.754 - 754.126 Bridget Armstrong

And so I jumped in and started talking to them, get a gauge of like how they feel about things, what happened to them. And it sort of laid the framework. One of the things that we did two episodes on was the psychiatric evaluations. And so I found out about those from talking to these models. And as I started talking to more models, they all had a very similar experience.

754.146 - 766.345 Bridget Armstrong

And then some of them had a really disturbing experience where they found out that like the psyche valve was being used to produce them on the show, right? And so it was things like that where we're talking and I'm seeing the through line.

766.325 - 787.692 Natalie Robomed

And a little bit of what the title of your podcast refers to is that America's Next Top Model promised to find America's Next Top Model, but none of the winners or really any of the participants went on to really make it as models. And in fact, as you report, being on the show was considered a mark against them in the fashion industry.

788.127 - 809.131 Bridget Armstrong

Absolutely. So when we started production on the program, I was a little resistant, to be honest, to using that title at first because I was like, oh, I'm a fan and I want this to be as much about the negative impact as it is about the fandom and why we liked it. But the more we spoke with people and the more we really looked into it, I sort of realized the curse part is undeniable.

809.532 - 822.689 Bridget Armstrong

And the curse, it's not just on the models. It's not just about Tyra. It's not even just about us, the audience, right? And it's not even just about... The treatment the models faced when they were working on the show. It's what happened to them after. It was the stigma.

Chapter 7: What controversies arose from the show's production practices?

823.05 - 838.333 Bridget Armstrong

So we talked to models who, winners, like we talked to several winners of their season, who once they left the show, they were signed with whatever agency was the agency sponsoring the season. But they would go in and they found that the agencies didn't know what to do with them.

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838.313 - 858.651 Bridget Armstrong

These days, if you go to a talent agency, they might have a division that works with reality TV stars, that works with folks who are influencers. But back in these days, they didn't have that. These women were not seen as models because, one, the way they entered the industry was not through traditional means.

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858.631 - 875.323 Bridget Armstrong

And two, the stuff they were doing on Top Model was just so unrealistic that the agencies didn't take them seriously. Another thing that I thought, I didn't think about this part, and several models told me that they experienced this. And one of the models, Lisa, actually had modeled before

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875.303 - 892.631 Bridget Armstrong

she was on America's Next Top Model and found that once she got off the show, she couldn't go back and book the same job she'd done before because now she's known for the reality show. So while you're trying to be in an ad selling toothpaste, right, you're distracting from the toothpaste because everybody, oh, that's Lisa from Top Model and they're not looking at the product.

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893.111 - 895.455 Bridget Armstrong

So clients didn't want to work with them either.

905.037 - 955.243 Unknown

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Chapter 8: How does Tyra Banks address the criticism of her role in the show?

1013.979 - 1032.7 Unknown

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1036.223 - 1048.261 Natalie Robomed

We're back with more from Bridget. She's going to talk about the America's Next Top Model contracts that she has seen and reported on in her own podcast, though we have not independently seen these, and has a lot more to share.

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1049.423 - 1065.066 Natalie Robomed

A lot of these other kind of talent search shows like American Idol and The Voice, you know, they've had a mixed record, but at least they've had one Kelly Clarkson or whatever else. But I think the issue with Top Model is that a lot of these girls put themselves...

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1065.046 - 1085.113 Natalie Robomed

through very extreme conditions and extreme changes to their face, their teeth, under the premise that it would help them get jobs after and then that didn't happen. Can we talk about the most extreme makeovers that the teeth and some of the other stuff that happened?

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1085.093 - 1111.454 Bridget Armstrong

So Joni and Dani, Dani went on to win her cycle. They were on cycle six and they were given major dental surgery as their makeover. So Dani had a gap and she was pressured to have it closed. Do you really think you can have a cover girl contract with a gap in your mouth? Yes, why not? This is all people see. It's Easy Read's beautiful cover girl. It's not marketable. At first, she resisted.

1111.474 - 1133.578 Bridget Armstrong

She didn't want to have it closed at all. The signature gap is staying in my mouth. That's who I am. She ultimately decided to close it a bit, right? Joni, on the other hand, had like a full, like she had veneers, essentially. Like she had her teeth shaven down and had veneers put in. With that process... I'm going to go have all my front 12 teeth grinded down to pencil points.

1134.706 - 1141.341 Unknown

I've been in that dentist's office for 12 hours and I have to deal with it all day tomorrow.

1141.361 - 1160.354 Bridget Armstrong

Like these days, if you have that done, there's usually some downtime. You may not even do it all in one day. She had everything done in one day and had to go to a photo shoot the next day. And she didn't win. And in Dani's case, you know, she talks about it on the Netflix doc. Once she left Top Model, she didn't book jobs. And she said she ran into Tyra years later.

1160.855 - 1184.362 Bridget Armstrong

And Tyra pretty much admitted to her that she knew she wasn't getting work and she didn't do anything about it. And you see that story over and over and over. You know, having a haircut is not as extreme as having all your teeth shaven down. But there were women on the show who never had short hair. And we know how much... Hair is tied to, like, femininity and beauty, right or wrong, right?

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