Nathan Berry

And, uh, I had started a web design business by then it was doing well, basically I got my first $10,000 contract.

Um, and I called my mom and said, Hey,

I think I'm ready to drop out of college.

And I expected to have to like convince her that it was a good idea.

And she, you know, she'd followed my progress and I talked to her about the web design business I'd been running and the freelancing and stuff like that.

And she just said like, yeah, I expected that we'd have this conversation soon.

I was paying for it myself.

I got a lot of grants because like the low income, you know, FAFSA grants and stuff like that, financial aid.

And then the rest, you know, so I dropped out with like $5,000 of student loans rather than a crazy amount.

So yeah, that was a case for having, coming from a low income family really helped.

That's just an idea that I've- That was you.

Yeah, and I think that one I was still... That was probably this transition between selling hours and selling an outcome.

And so, yeah, that was an early example of a product, but still largely hourly project-based work.

But it was definitely on a continuum.

It was...

not the hourly web design work that I'd been doing before.

It was like, okay, now I'm getting paid for an outcome.

And there's starting to be this disconnect between the effort that I put in

and the money that I make, which is what we're looking for in entrepreneurship.

As these things are tightly coupled, there's no leverage.