Nathan Isaacs

Right.

Like, you know, you don't have to give candy, but what's that equivalent in education, right?

Make it something that they want to be in their seats, you know, the type of thing.

But instead of looking for that punishment, we're going to make you, we're going to force you into this behavior because we think that's right.

Well, I know when I do that with my kids, sure, I can get it, but they're not learning anything.

They're not changing their behaviors.

They just know that they're not going to get in trouble.

That's...

Yeah.

That kind of leads us to another next question here.

So you've talked about how creativity is an ROI driver, not a nice to have, and outlined how it fuels innovation and business impact.

Can you share any examples for our listeners on that?

The, uh,

As I'm thinking, many companies are great at tracking, again, it's focused on efficiency, focused on customer metrics, but you've also argued that we need inside-out work and intuition to truly understand people.

How can teams blend quantitative data with intuition and lived experience, or I'm sorry, how can teams blend quantitative data with

with intuition and lived experience to reach more meaningful insights.

Yeah, as we wrap up, and we can't get through an episode without talking about AI.

Now, many teams worry about AI that they worry that it will either speed them up to an unsustainable level or flatten their creativity.

And you argue the opposite, that AI can be a co-creator that sparks wonder and deeper thinking.

What does it look like for a product or design team to work with AI in a way that enhances rather than replaces human creativity?