Ned Price

But I think the real task between the United States and Europe and Ukraine over the short term is to work out these security guarantees and what exactly that looks like, what the United States is going to contribute.

here again is a concern because the security guarantees in in one sense that's actually the easy easier part of the equation uh we are really negotiating between and among our allies and partners ukraine europe um and others russia shouldn't get a veto over what security guarantees ukraine gets but um here too the trump administration might see otherwise tragically the real difficult question comes with the idea of land and territory

And on one level, you can guarantee a really terrible deal and that will just be tantamount to surrender.

If you're guaranteeing Russia's permanent possession of 20 or 20 plus percent of Ukrainian territory, along with no NATO, along with no military, along with potentially a changing government, that guarantee isn't worth anything and it's not something we should be pushing for.

So really the territorial question is going to be the more difficult one.

I think over the longer term, Ben, I think Europe, despite the happy face they put on, and I should say the vast majority of these European leaders see President Trump as a Bulgarian.

They go there and they stroke his ego because they know they have to.

They're holding their noses.

They don't like him.

They don't like what he stands for, but they've seen the alternative and they don't want the alternative.

So I think they are wise to the fact that they are going to have to become more independent.

I think they are wise to the fact that to the extent that Ukraine will continue to need security assistance into the future, it's going to depend on purchases from, not contributions from, United States to Ukraine.

And I think above all of that, there are going to be certain European leaders, I think President Macron, chief among them,

who are going to be pushing for Europe to go its own way more and more, to go its own way in terms of its own security, in terms of its economic interests, in terms of its diplomatic interests around the world.

You're starting to see this divergence.

It's not something that has started within the past six months, but I think the Trump administration has really accelerated it.

And over the next three and a half years, I fear that Europe can make a good amount of progress

if it feels incentivized to go its own way to create that daylight with and from the United States.

That's certainly not in our interest.

It's not in Europe's interest over the long term.