Niall Donald

There may be people like that in this world that are classic psychopaths.

most people who are, most people are a mixture of good and bad.

Criminals are a mixture of good and bad.

The Kinnans, the Hutches, everybody else, you know, the reporters, the judges, the guards.

Some of us have more goodness and some of us have more bad, but we're all human beings that have a range of these qualities.

You know, and the monk certainly shows him to have concern for his family, you know, loyalty to his friends.

It also shows him to be ambivalent about committing criminal acts, let's put it that way.

It also shows, I suppose, how his life of, you know, how he became introduced to crime.

And there is no doubt poverty and deprivation.

Yeah.

But I suppose the moral question then becomes not...

what Rex Ryan gets out of it but what Gerard Hutch gets out of it and does Rex Ryan facilitate that and that's where the moral question has come from I mean I sort of summarise what the moral case is but that is the case is that you know is this immoral as a result of Gerard Hutch participating and getting something out of it

Well, I think so.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you're putting me in the position to be the devil's advocate, but I suppose that the issue would be that, well, I mean, so the issue would be that, you know, that you're allowing somebody to wash their reputation, I suppose, Gerard Hutch.

Well, again...

That is what people are saying, isn't it?

Yeah.

No, look, I suppose, see, have we ever quoted Oscar Wilde before?

I'm sure I do, all the time.