Niall Donald

But it was definitely 50-50.

And there was definitely people

That morning, very knowledgeable people, people who would have, you know, been in contact with guards and stuff, who were convinced he was going to be found guilty.

Okay.

For the simple reason that nearly everybody who goes to special criminal court is found guilty.

It's 99%, is it?

Well, I don't know if it's that high, but it's certainly very, very high.

Yes.

So it wasn't a foregone conclusion, but you know, there was, there was, if you would listen to Jonathan Dowdle, which I did over many days, he was a very unconvincing witness.

But I don't think Gerard Hutch sitting in that holding cell could have been, you know, he might've, I'm sure he actually would have said, I was, I'm going to walk.

But in that moment, you know, you just can't know.

Yes.

So you chose that for that reason, I think.

Yes.

So look, I mean, we obviously had Gerard Hutch on this podcast and, you know, we traced his life as well.

Yeah.

And, yeah,

I'm sure it was.

I owe you money.

We'll take it in a brown paper envelope in the spirit of the times.