Niall Donald

effectively in the middle of nowhere yeah now you can walk in and walk out of that prison no problem I presume there's CCTV that'll record you coming in and out and there may even well be security on the doors but there's not this constant check people the door the gates aren't locked in Shelton Abbey I think you can just drive in yeah

So, you know, and the majority of, well, maybe not the majority, but a good number of those people are coming in and out every day.

So it's an escape, but it's really a walk, a walk out the door, like, you know.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, these people are at the end of their sentence and they don't get there.

Like they don't put, you know, criminals that are, you know, that they believe are going to... Be dangerous.

Be dangerous in there.

And they certainly don't put them in there if they, you know, people are going there for the last six months of their sentence to try and... Stephen Daly was in for quite a lengthy sentence, wasn't it?

It was...

Yeah, so he's coming to the end, presumably.

They try and let him have a bit of responsibility because obviously people become institutionalized and, you know, they need to be able to take a degree of responsibility for themselves in order to cope.

But yeah, it's, people don't know how easy it is to escape from prison, I suppose.

Now, one of the other stories that there was a lot of interest this week was James Michael Gately.

While Gerard Hutch was the subject of a play, I suppose, and the ambassador that we've spoken about is one of his...

his associates and I suppose his nephew, Gary Hutch's best friend, James Magogately, was having another sort of hearing, I suppose, in a long running case involving the Criminal Assets Bureau.

The cab cases can really grind these guys down, I think, don't they?

They really are quite relentless once they get them into the system.

Now, Seamus Culleton, who myself and Nicola spoke about this week.

I mean, it just keeps getting worse for him, doesn't it, on a public level?

Yes.