Nicola Tallent

You can absolutely, they emanate it.

It's like it's in their DNA.

Anyway, as regards what made these people, what created them, what went before them, what may happen after them, we're working on it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you're looking at me nervously.

No, no, no.

You're working on it and you need to now finish your tome.

And hopefully we'll sit down over the next week or two and we will do a long form kind of deep dive into this and all that has happened around them and all that has happened within those communities that they live in.

It takes a lot to shock us.

Have you checked out our new website, crimeworld.com, where you'll find ad-free exclusive content, including our new series, The Science of Fear, about the rise and fall of Daniel Kinahan's right-hand man, Thomas Bomberkavanaugh.

Subscribers can listen to all nine parts, but for those of you not yet signed up, here's an extract from part one.

It's July 25th, Ipswich Crown Court.

Three of Ireland's most notorious criminals flicker onto the courtroom screens from prisons across England.

Thomas Bommer-Cavanagh appears on Zoom from Belmarsh Prison, looking surprisingly tanned and trim in a dark grey T-shirt.

Beside him on the screen is lieutenants Gary Flash Vickery and Daniel Canning appear from other prisons, fidgeting in their seats.

In contrast, Kavanagh sits bolt upright with arms folded across his chest and listens intently in an interview room with bathroom blue walls.

As a female prison guard nips in and out of Kavanagh's interview room, the exasperated judge, Justice Martin Levitt, stops proceedings to scold, we'll just wait for Belmarsh to stop coming in and out of the room because it's interrupting us yet again.

Over the morning there are various arguments set out by wigged barristers who call each other my learned friend in clipped British accents.

But the outcome is clear.