Nicolle Wallace

But they seem to have...

sort of come in with force and brutality in Minnesota.

And I wonder what you say about the fear response.

Well, and at a pragmatic level, Trump smells people's fear and organizations' fear and institutions' fear.

And when he went after the law firms and they went down there and sniveled and cowered before him, it didn't placate him.

He went steamrolling through the entire big law universe.

And same with the universities.

Do you think the circumstances or the politics of capitulation have become worse for institutions like Harvard?

Right, from the position of such profound weakness that they put themselves in.

I guess that's it.

What do we do to maintain our agency and not put ourselves in those positions of weakness?

Oh, I see.

I ended the year so optimistic.

And I guess I'm starting the year so anxious.

And I ended the year feeling like from the Kimmel benching and then the public saying, you know, what the fuck?

Give me my Jimmy Kimmel back or I'll decide, you know, that millions of people canceled their Hulu and Disney is to me amazing.

And that gave me so much hope.

And then you corrected me in saying that the elections weren't about Democrats running the tables.

They were about the American people running the tables.

And I felt great about that.