Nilay Patel

These are fundamentally your clients, and you're building a tool for them.

Yeah, but let me just contrast that to your previous role in the state courts as the Chief Justice in Michigan.

The Michigan Supreme Courts belong to everybody in Michigan.

No matter who the parties are, they're yours.

You're paying taxes.

You walk in and maybe they work and maybe they don't and maybe no one knows who was at the function saying what.

But it belongs to you in some way equally.

In arbitration, there was recently a case like Disney said to somebody trying to sue them in a theme park.

You signed the arbitration agreement for Disney+.

Like we're going to arbitration.

That's pretty one-sided.

That form does not belong to both parties equally.

Right.

And that imbalance seems like where the loss of trust, at least in the consumer side that I cover so much, comes from.

How do you make sure, even as a nonprofit, that the party that is paying for and driving the system doesn't make sure the automated system, in particular the automated system, doesn't favor them over time?

Because that's a pretty easy outcome to start programming in.

As you can tell, I'm fascinated.

The reason I keep poking at this, our readers at The Verge, like every other consumer in modernity, you just live a life of signing contracts.

You don't get to negotiate those contracts, but you literally cannot participate in society without having signed dozens upon dozens of arbitration agreements.

And I hear you say we have to get it right.