Noel King

Kelly Wessinger produced today's show.

Amina El-Sadi and Jolie Myers edited.

David Tatasciore is our engineer and Gabriel Donatov checks the facts.

I'm Noelle King.

It's Today Explained.

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been talking about the war in Iran in distinctly biblical terms, citing Psalms, the resurrection of Jesus, and the Book of Quentin.

President Trump is comparing himself to Christ.

Vice President Vance is fighting with the Pope.

Watching all of this is the increasingly influential pastor Doug Wilson.

He co-founded the church that Hegseth attends.

Wilson's a Christian nationalist who would like the USA to be a theocracy.

He'd also like to help us get there, though he doesn't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

Pastor Doug Wilson and how much you should worry about his plans, coming up on Today Explained from Vox.

Pastor Wilson, I've heard you say that you are okay being called a Christian nationalist.

Do I have that right?

He gets called a theocrat, a fundamentalist, an extremist.

And Wilson can be extreme.

He said that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to hold political office in the U.S.

He said that it was better to be a Black person in the South during slavery than to be a Black baby in a state that allows abortion.

He can also sound very rational, as you're going to hear.