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Chapter 1: How is the Iran war framed in biblical terms by the Secretary of Defense?
Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been talking about the war in Iran in distinctly biblical terms, citing Psalms, the resurrection of Jesus, and the Book of Quentin.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to capture and destroy my brother.
President Trump is comparing himself to Christ. Vice President Vance is fighting with the Pope. Watching all of this is the increasingly influential pastor Doug Wilson. He co-founded the church that Hegseth attends. Wilson's a Christian nationalist who would like the USA to be a theocracy. He'd also like to help us get there, though he doesn't think it's going to happen anytime soon.
I believe that it is accelerating. I believe that we're making significant gains. I see us assembling resources, and I'm encouraged in that labor. But I don't expect to see what we're praying for in my lifetime.
Pastor Doug Wilson and how much you should worry about his plans, coming up on Today Explained from Vox.
Hey, I'm Matt Buchel, comedian, writer, and floating head you may or may not have seen on your FYP. And I'm starting a brand new podcast. Wait, don't swipe away. It's called That Sounds Like a Lot. You know that feeling when you check your phone, read a few headlines, and think, that sounds like a lot. I can't do this. Well, I can, and I'm going to get into it every Friday.
You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going to start by breaking down whatever insanity is happening in the world.
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Chapter 2: What is Pastor Doug Wilson's perspective on Christian nationalism?
And then I'll sit down with a comedian or actor or writer or, honestly, anyone who responds to my DMs. This is not the place to get the news, but it is a place to feel a little bit better about it. That Sounds Like a Lot, coming May 1st, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
This is Today Explained. My name is Douglas James Wilson. I'm the senior pastor at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. So I'm a pastor and I'm a writer.
Pastor Wilson, I've heard you say that you are okay being called a Christian nationalist.
Yes.
Do I have that right?
Right. I'm okay with it. It's not a term that I would have picked off the menu myself, but when it was assigned to us, I thought, I can work with that, because I prefer it to the names I usually get called.
He gets called a theocrat, a fundamentalist, an extremist. And Wilson can be extreme. He said that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to hold political office in the U.S. He said that it was better to be a Black person in the South during slavery than to be a Black baby in a state that allows abortion. He can also sound very rational, as you're going to hear.
And we're talking to him because he's gaining influence in a country where many people are disappointed by what secular liberal democracy has gotten us.
There's a character in one of Hemingway's stories I've heard who was asked how he went bankrupt. And he said, well, at first gradually and then suddenly. So what happened is when COVID hit, was sort of the pressure test or the stress test for us. All the wheels came off and for a lot of, I call them normies and grillers, a lot of normal Americans were looking around and say, what just happened?
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Chapter 3: How does Pastor Wilson envision a Christian nation in America?
When Trump misbehaves, everybody laughs. We budgeted for that. That's bad. And we know it's bad, and we say it's bad. But also, we don't have Trump derangement syndrome. When he does good things that thrill us, we're thrilled. I don't mind saying that there are whole... range of issues where Trump's behavior has thrilled me and others that I just heartily disapprove of.
And I don't think I'm setting a poor example for our people when I say what I think about both of those categories.
Pastor Doug Wilson, co-founder of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, CREC. Did you know Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth belongs to a CREC church? We're going to ask Pastor Wilson how he sees his influence on Hegseth and about that Trump-Jesus meme.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of Pastor Wilson's views on abortion and marriage?
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Chapter 5: How does Pastor Wilson respond to criticisms of his views?
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Today explained.
Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, attends a CREC church, and that's why I think people mention you in the same breath. Correct. The Secretary of Defense has had opportunities, ample opportunities of late, to speak publicly in front of the American people. Do you hear your church's teachings when he speaks?
Yes.
How so?
Yes. So basically, let me flip it around. I don't hear anything from him that contradicts what we teach. And I believe that he's a consistent Christian gentleman. I like what he's doing. I like the job he's doing. But I've not heard anything that contradicts what we would teach from the pulpit.
He has spoken of the war in Iran in religious terms. He also suggests that God is on America's side, right? God is rooting for America in this war. So I think the thing that people struggle with is... The idea that God would be on board when you see civilian casualties like this school in Iran with the children, 150 people, maybe even possibly even more killed. That happens.
And then the secretary of defense says, God's on our side. Can you help us understand why that feels right to you?
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