Norman Ohler

And he had certainly something to work through, the trauma of killing a man.

So it's also no surprise that he receives one of the commandments, you should not kill, you know.

So for him, it's like extremely, extremely important.

And what he receives on the mountain, like God is like...

There's someone speaking to me and he understands that God is not, that there's not many gods, just one God.

Like he has a revelation, you know.

And I think when I read, you know, these examinations by these scholars, I think it makes a lot of sense to imagine that the Jewish religion comes from Moses' trip.

And also, if you look at the Jewish religion,

They are quite open to drugs.

I don't know if that, you know, that could be an unconscious reaction to that kind of trippy beginning.

Like they have Purim where it's like you're supposed to get intoxicated to get closer to God.

They're not as straight-laced as the Christians.

Like they were just, you know, they just allow alcohol.

It's like the blood of Christ.

So also Stone Sapiens is a book about religion.

Also the Islam and intoxication is also a very interesting topic because you have the Sufis who intoxicate themselves to get into ecstasy, to be closer to God.

And then you have like the conservative Sufis.

Islamist scholar Ibn Taymiyyah, who defended Damascus against the Mongols by combining anti-drug rhetoric, like they're bringing drugs to us and they are not good Muslims.

So drugs and religion, sometimes drugs kind of...

help religion to like, are used in religious contexts.