Norman Ohler

But that was four or five thousand years ago, something like that.

But what happened in the thousands of years before, there's no source that there were rulers.

It seems like humans were quite good in organizing themselves without kings before these first kings came.

And I mean, thousands of years from the end of the Ice Age until the Sumerian high culture, there were no kings.

So people were quite able to organize their communities.

There was, for example, Katalhöyük in Eastern Turkey,

That was working for like 2000 years without any hierarchies.

I think that is quite interesting.

And then why do suddenly the hierarchy start and what makes the hierarchy stronger?

and again, I'm still researching this, but in Sumeria, we can see that it's the beer that destroys the hierarchy-free society because they suddenly, they are able, I mean, beer is quite old.

The first beer was made in Gobekli Tepe, the famous first kind of structure of mankind.

I also write about that because it's very interesting.

Small detail, what is Gobekli Tepe?

No one knows.

How did they make it?

No one knows, but they made it.

But why did they make it?

I think they made it because they were creating a meeting place.

And why was that so important?

There were not so many humans at the time.