Ocean Vuong

It's like, oh, you believe in this too much? You clearly haven't thought deeply about it.

Yeah, and earnestness and sincerity is overcommitting, right? Because you have to go all in. You have to have hope, optimism. But the synod gets to stay in the neutral line and judge the ones who go forward. So it's an easier position to be in, and there's very low risk of it.

Yeah, and earnestness and sincerity is overcommitting, right? Because you have to go all in. You have to have hope, optimism. But the synod gets to stay in the neutral line and judge the ones who go forward. So it's an easier position to be in, and there's very low risk of it.

Where I'm from, reading itself is almost a betrayal. It's a class betrayal. It was kind of seen as like, oh, you're too good for us. You're trying to read to go to college. You're trying too hard to get out.

Where I'm from, reading itself is almost a betrayal. It's a class betrayal. It was kind of seen as like, oh, you're too good for us. You're trying to read to go to college. You're trying too hard to get out.

Hi again. Good to see you.

Hi again. Good to see you.

Glad to talk to you again. I must say, before we start, there is some drilling happening in my New York apartment. So if you hear... whining, painful sound is, I promise, is not coming from my voice.

Glad to talk to you again. I must say, before we start, there is some drilling happening in my New York apartment. So if you hear... whining, painful sound is, I promise, is not coming from my voice.

No, you know, I tried to kind of like break down a poem for her. I tried to even talk to her about books I want to write. And I think it was hard for her ultimately to be in proximity of my reading and writing because it was almost like I was evidence of what she could have done if she had a normal life untouched by war. And when I realized that very early on, I stopped reading in front of her.

No, you know, I tried to kind of like break down a poem for her. I tried to even talk to her about books I want to write. And I think it was hard for her ultimately to be in proximity of my reading and writing because it was almost like I was evidence of what she could have done if she had a normal life untouched by war. And when I realized that very early on, I stopped reading in front of her.

Because it was almost like this mocking. It's like, I'm proud of my son, but gosh, he's in a world I'll never access. And I put the books away after I realized that. Because also, where I'm from, reading itself is almost a betrayal. It's a class betrayal. It was kind of seen as like... Oh, you're too good for us? You're trying to read to go to college? You're trying too hard to get out.

Because it was almost like this mocking. It's like, I'm proud of my son, but gosh, he's in a world I'll never access. And I put the books away after I realized that. Because also, where I'm from, reading itself is almost a betrayal. It's a class betrayal. It was kind of seen as like... Oh, you're too good for us? You're trying to read to go to college? You're trying too hard to get out.

And in the same way, it's like, I remember when I first started reading in high school, I would go to the library or the lunchroom and read, and I would hide. I would pretend to be asleep. I would put my head down on my hand and put the book in my lap. And it felt so natural. Like, oh, yeah, I got it.

And in the same way, it's like, I remember when I first started reading in high school, I would go to the library or the lunchroom and read, and I would hide. I would pretend to be asleep. I would put my head down on my hand and put the book in my lap. And it felt so natural. Like, oh, yeah, I got it.

But in retrospect, it was so interesting but deeply sad that it was better for me to perform lethargy and unconsciousness. It was better to perform unconsciousness than to read and be perceived reading. I'm still stunned by that, you know, but it just, that was how you had to do it. If you wanted to read, you had to find a way.

But in retrospect, it was so interesting but deeply sad that it was better for me to perform lethargy and unconsciousness. It was better to perform unconsciousness than to read and be perceived reading. I'm still stunned by that, you know, but it just, that was how you had to do it. If you wanted to read, you had to find a way.

David, I still don't understand it because I've met so few people who've gone through it. I tried to explain this to my mother and my aunt, the kind of loneliness of class movement. It takes so long to study and realize what has happened to you. And I think of this in relation to Mark Fisher's work, who writes brilliantly about this as a theorist.

David, I still don't understand it because I've met so few people who've gone through it. I tried to explain this to my mother and my aunt, the kind of loneliness of class movement. It takes so long to study and realize what has happened to you. And I think of this in relation to Mark Fisher's work, who writes brilliantly about this as a theorist.

He says, coming from the working poor, it takes decades of learning to realize what happened to you. And by the time you realize it, It's too late. Like right now, my grandma's dead, my uncle's dead, my mom's dead. You know, it's almost like there's a kind of helplessness to that realization. And so I think I've kind of come to an end of understanding all that, but it feels too late.