Pablo Torre

But once you agree they matter, suddenly you have the ability to engender something like a philosophy that can, in your book's telling, actually benefit more people than otherwise.

I mean, you you you did this guys who are on death row like the death row inmates who spend their last seconds on Earth expending breath to make the noise of let's go cowboys.

At every turn, I'm always like tempted to remind people like we're not saying that all rules must be enforced because all rules are automatically good.

We dare say.

Oh, my God.

I mean, like we're living through, again, depending on whether we survive nuclear winter, we are going to have the conversation around what's it like to disobey orders at the highest levels of government.

And we are at the same time having a conversation in the NCAA around...

How are we supposed to pay these athletes?

And isn't it strange that we needed to break the rules around non-paying athletes to get them some sort of financial justice before we had these regulations being reformed to enable something like a market?

All of that, yes, all of that is being considered.

But I think the principles, the core principles around, are you encouraging competition?

Are you deterring corruption?

And are you creating a society that actually gives a fuck?

about holding the most powerful people to some sort of account, you are led to this attitude that I'm always confronting these days, which is, yeah, on its face, it's not cool to be the guy with the book that says rules matter.

And yet...

Like, to be the guy quoting Jack Nicholson while holding a bobblehead, we need you on that wall.

This is where we are.

We f***ing need someone to say this.

Like, the pendulum, and all of this is seemingly always, unfortunately, a pendulum, it swung so far away to the point where it has to be this, like, reassertion.

Like, we forgot why other things besides money...