Pablo Torre

But there was something to the old George Allen story that Maury was telling where being...

in conflict with someone in power gave way to wanting to get along with them.

And I just, I don't know, I grew up thinking that like journalists are supposed to do the thing that makes the powerful person at the very least a little uncomfortable.

Oh, yes.

And you embodied that.

Your interviews, I mean, are clinics.

But like, listen, I've been investigating Steve Ballmer.

Yeah.

Of course, one of the 10 richest people in the world at last check, the richest owner in all of sports.

But I go back and I rewatched your interview of Bill Gates.

Ah.

His fellow- Oh, he walked off.

So remind us what it was like to get the founder of Microsoft, who was, of course, Steve Ballmer's classmate and also his close friend and the guy that Ballmer ultimately succeeded as the CEO of Microsoft.

What was it like to interview him?

Yes.

So what's so funny about that is I think of Gates now as like the forerunner, obviously, to someone that, by the way, I went to college with Mark Zuckerberg.

Became the new avatar in the social network and with Facebook and all that.

Yes.

And Mark Zuckerberg now is like he's pivoted to like mixed martial arts and he's like working out and he's surfing and he's trying to reassert, I would say, his masculinity.

And then I go back and watch your interview with Gates and I'm like, Bill Gates was doing the same thing.