Patric Gagne
👤 SpeakerAppearances Over Time
Podcast Appearances
All of this, I have to point out, is all the more complicated by the fact that the term sociopath is no longer used due to stigma. They recently reclassified sociopathy as secondary psychopathy, which I'm not sure does much for stigma, but it also makes it a lot harder to understand and also to research.
When you're looking up research, you don't know what you're necessarily reading about all the time.
I remember it probably... Probably didn't really resonate with me until I was sort of actively in school and relating to other people through socialization. But I just remember a very... keen awareness that I was not like the other kids. I had a younger sister, so I understood what complex emotional development looked like. And I also understood that I didn't have that.
So my sister seemed to take to the learned emotions, especially guilt and shame, like a fish to water. I mean, it was instant for her. And I remember not getting it at all But with that also came the realization, not only do I not get this, but I also understand that I can't talk about it.
Because the few times I tried, it was very clear that adults were not comfortable around kids who started talking about how little remorse they have. And it was very much like a double bind for me in the sense that I was constantly told, you need to be honest. You need to be honest about your feelings. You need to be honest about your reactions.
And yet when I did that, I was also met with instant disapproval and punishment. So I leaned into coping mechanisms, deceit, manipulation, charm. And over time, those developed into a lifestyle. But I remember as a kid feeling like, what choice do I have? I can't be honest. I remember the, and I think I talked about this in the book, the truth shall set you free.
That was never the case for me, ever, ever. It was such a lie. And I also remember, I remember feeling, so much theory about Santa Claus because, okay. So it's this whole, it's a lie. It's a lie that we tell every kid. And I remember watching them telling my sister like, oh, there's a Santa and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I was like, okay, so let me get this straight.
I'm not allowed to lie about anything, but you can create this, this world where this man lives and comes down a chimney and Oh, and don't talk to strangers unless it's this insane person that comes out once a year, in which case we're going to sit you on his lap and you are instructed to tell him all of your secrets. I remember thinking as a kid, this is insane. And being told, no, you're insane.
You're the one that's wrong on this. And no one really seemed to get that. But what I noticed was happening was, I started to notice this pressure, this tension. And I thought for the longest time that the tension was associated with apathy, with the fact that I was void of feeling the social emotions. But looking back, I realized that wasn't the case. The apathy was never the problem.
It was the belief system that if I didn't do something to jolt myself out of apathy, that I would be outed and I wouldn't be able to live my life the way that I wanted to live it. I was very aware of rules. I was very aware of right and wrong. I understood that the perks of society were only granted to those who acted the way they were quote unquote supposed to.
And I understood that I had to do that. So when I would feel this apathy start to rise or start to sort of just settle in, I would feel an almost immediate... compulsion to act out. And I can't explain it. I can now, but as a kid, I couldn't explain it other than I would just feel compelled to act out destructively. And there were lots of ways that I did this. I would steal.
I remember stealing backpacks was something that was very easy for me. And again, it wasn't the acquisition. It was the action. I never wanted these things.
I would act out just minor indiscretions to the extent that I would capitalize on any opportunity to do something wrong, be it going into my neighbor's house, be it sneaking around at night, just to sort of, I guess, activate some part of me that I felt needed to be activated.
But on the day that I assaulted a child, I remember feeling that I had been doing, engaging in all of these minor, in my perspective, transgressions. And they weren't working or they weren't working the way that they had been. And I was standing next to this child who was, she was a bully, which is not to say she was deserving, but I remember she was poking and prodding.
And I just remember taking a pencil and just turning and stabbing her with it. And And understanding that it was wrong, I wasn't getting off on this child being hurt or in pain, but some part of me understood that that would neutralize this pressure that had been building and it did.
And worse, it didn't just neutralize the pressure, but it resulted in a type of euphoria that I remember feeling and also understanding, oh man, I can't get used to this. Like this isn't something that I can do.
I would just remember. And again, I'm putting adult words on a childlike experience. So I just remember when I think about it, it was, yeah, you better do something. You better do something. You better do something. You better do something. It was the feeling like that. Hmm.
And it was just this understanding that the apathy, again, it's hard now as an adult because now when I'm apathetic, I really like it. It's like floating. It's wonderful. But as a kid, this understanding that I'm not allowed to enjoy this thing because this thing is going to result in me being essentially denied entrance to society. Yes.
And again, it wasn't the approval or the companionship that I was seeking. I just remember thinking, I have things that I might want to do in life and I'm not going to be told I can't do them because I'm not what you guys have decided is the right thing. I am what I am. I don't know what to tell you.
So I'm just going to act like all these other kids and I'm just going to slide through with the herd. And just this understanding that if I didn't do something to sort of jumpstart my journey emotional or like internal emotional state that I wasn't going to be able to slide under the radar with the herd.