Patrick Campbell

And then what ended up happening is I brought Fakou on.

Fakou wasn't going to come on for a small percentage as the first actual product engineering leader.

So he basically got a co-founder share, which didn't come out of my side.

It came out of their side, basically.

And then the big things we did over the years is we would have milestone grants.

So once the business hit a certain amount, essentially we'd get these giant grants for probably 10 to 15 different people in the company.

And those names would change depending on the cycle of the company and things like that.

And I would get the people like myself, Aku, Peter would get these large grants as well to maintain and also increase essentially the stakes.

I see.

So basically, totally.

So the people actually in the business and the co-founders of Peter and Fakou and myself, we ended up with a lot more than we had essentially in the beginning.

And these guys basically just went down over time, which honestly was a very stressful way to do it.

Because I think that...

it was a lot of mind games that I would like, I don't know if they actually thought the way that I was thinking they were thinking, because all of a sudden you're in this like game theory, like baloney basically, where you're sitting there and you're like, okay, well, I don't know if he's going to go for it.

You know, that type of thing.

Right.

And you're not having these like straight up conversations and you don't trust, like you don't trust these guys at all.

Like I didn't trust these guys.

And it's been really hard over the past 10 years because like,

I, it's almost like I can't trust them and it breaks my heart to say that, but it's like, it's, it's a weird, like, um, like I don't truly know.