Patrick Geoghegan

Very difficult because many of these kids as children were forced to kill members of their own family.

And again, in Nigeria, Boko Haram and the aftermath of all of that.

I mean, girls who perhaps became pregnant by members of Boko Haram and how they or their children would be greeted.

Another extraordinary story is the situation in Rwanda post-genocide.

And we all remember the Tutsi and the Hutu conflict and literally, literally rivers of blood and the construction of artificial families to help the survivors get through life.

Scattered all over the world, maybe.

But they're still, you know, the artificial brother would still be your brother to whom an invitation to your wedding would be sent.

Yeah.

There's a chapter about Syria and the story of Fawad Mahmood and her personal tragedy, a very brave woman whose son and husband disappeared.

Well, Sally, I have to say your book I found absolutely brilliant.

I mean, very readable, fascinating and absorbing.

It's called This is Also a Love Story, subtitled Searching for Good in a Divided World.

And you certainly found it in your researches.

Sally Hayden, its author, thank you very much for joining us in studio.

We're coming to you this morning from the beautiful surroundings of Avondale in County Wicklow.

It's the first show of Newstalk's Summer Tour 2026 with thanks to ESB, the largest EV charging network.

I'm joined now by Patrick Gagan, historian and presenter of Talking History and director of the Trinity Long Room Hub.

Patrick, good morning and welcome.

Good morning, Pat.

Wonderful to be here.