Patrick Robbins

And that...

some cost of what they need.

That's called the revenue requirement.

But then on top of that, the utility says, we need to attract investment.

So we need a return on equity for all of that stuff we build.

And that return on equity is often a lot higher than the actual cost of equity, the amount that would be strictly necessary for them to offer in order to attract investors.

So when you put it all together, there are these massive costs in the system that are actually built into the business model itself that honestly have very little to do with what it actually costs to generate and distribute power.

And so we at the Utility Customers Association are trying to lower bills by taking on both those generation and distribution costs.

Well, another way of thinking about it would be we are ourselves, all of us, paying back their investors.

You see what I'm saying?

So they go to the Public Service Commission and say, we want to be able to offer this return on equity for, you know, for investment.

And then all of that comes off of the ratepayers backs.

Right.

And then that's before you get into it.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's before you get into all these other costs, like, for example, ConEd's property tax, which is also directly passed on to the ratepayer and makes up an enormous portion of our bills.

So there's all sorts of ways in which the utility is able to pass their costs down to the ratepayer above and beyond what is strictly necessary for providing electricity.

You know, it's a really good question, Nat.

And I think it's important to note that the idea that you're describing of having a public distribution utility, that is not a science fiction idea.

We actually do have small public utilities already right here in New York State.