Paul Tashima

It's low.

It's not below what I would expect at this stage of the business by any means.

Sorry, not above, not above.

The turn is not above what I would expect in the first sort of year of selling.

What do you expect?

I mean, what do you like?

Give us that benchmark.

Oh man, I always think you got to be under 1.5% of total MRR term per month as you start to scale.

That's the benchmark we used at Eloqua that held us true.

And you always look at the net retention on top of that.

No, that's gross revenue churn.

Pre-expansion.

Yeah, because I think you got to look at those things as two different signals, right?

Net is a great way to hide both.

Yeah.

But expansion, you can be expanding on three accounts that are big and then losing a whole bunch of small ones.

And it tells you something about the business still.

So you need to look at them separately.

Yeah, that's right.

Like I mentioned, we're excited about the self-service revenue streams and the credit card stuff, but we're really focused on can we grow a small account to a large account and do they lock in for two years after that?