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Pavel Durov

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
1770 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

So we felt instantly when we were trying to switch to, say, secret chats to

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

share large documents and try to get work done.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

It was just not adapted for it.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

At the same time, if you were really paranoid, you think, you know, I don't want to be screenshotted.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I don't want to have any leaks.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I don't even trust Telegram.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I only trust code.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And secret chats are the best option.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I believe it is the most secure means of communication today.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

So you need reproducible builds in order to verify that the app really does what it claims, really encrypts data in a way that it is described on its website.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

For that, you need to make your apps open source for any researchers to have a look at it.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Telegram has been open source since 2013.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Apps like WhatsApp have never been open source, so you don't really know what they're doing and how exactly they encrypt your messages.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

What's important here though is to understand whether the version of the app that you download from the App Store corresponds exactly to the source code that you can view on GitHub.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And for that you need reproducible builds.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

As you said, Telegram is the only popular messaging app that does that.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

We allow people to make sure, both on Android and the IRS, that the source code of Telegram on GitHub and the app you're actually using is the same app.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I think it's incredibly important, not just to gain people's trust, but just to stay transparent and open about it.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

When I make this claim that Telegram's secret chats are the most secure way

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

way of communicating, I really mean it, because I haven't seen any fact contradicting this claim.