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Pavel Durov

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
1770 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

I kept running VK.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

But I knew my days in Russia were numbered.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

It can definitely happen.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

As you said, there are certain indications.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

There have been certain test attempts to partially ban it.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Telegram is no longer accessible in parts of Russia, such as Dagestan.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And it would be incredibly sad if Russia restores its attempts to ban Telegram because currently

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

It's been used by its population for all kinds of purposes, not just personal communication or economic business activities, but also it's the only platform which allows the Russian people to access independent sources of information.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

If you think about

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

media outlets such as BBC or any other non-Russian sources of information, they're only accessible in Russia through Telegram in the form of Telegram channels.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Their websites are banned, some other social media sites are banned,

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And as you said, there are indications that Russia is planning to migrate users from existing messaging apps such as WhatsApp and Telegram to their own homegrown tool.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

which would, of course, be fully transparent to the government and wouldn't allow voices independent from the government to express themselves.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

It's certainly an alarming trend.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

We see these attempts in countries that are not famous for protecting freedom of speech, but also increasingly in countries that

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

have been known to protect freedoms.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And this creates this vicious circle.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Because, in a way, European countries trying to fight freedom of speech under pretexts that sound legitimate, such as combating misinformation or election interference, they create precedents and they legitimize

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

restrictions to freedom of speech, which then in turn be used by authoritarian regimes.

Lex Fridman Podcast
#482 โ€“ Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

And they would say in places like China or Iran that they're not doing anything different.