Peter O'Dwyer

I remember him talking about that amidst the crisis where maybe some pure people might advise him, you know, don't kind of give us your, you know, people are in a worse position.

Yes, you miss your family, you know, maybe don't talk about it publicly.

But,

I think he was right.

He was like, I'm human too.

Here's how it's affecting me.

There's a bit of empathy in his position with everybody else.

Yeah.

I mean, like we're forever talking about planning and this is the body that is at the center of it.

And every industry you deal with, every, you know, politician, it all comes back to planning an awful lot at the time.

I think like for Ancama Shun Planola, On Board Planola, as it previously was, there was two things.

There was the big scandal and, you know, the controversy and there was kind of,

ethical and governance issues there.

But it also just seems to be a real resourcing and expertise issue that has been there as well.

And that, it seems, is also being addressed.

So there's kind of two reform strands running concurrently to each other.

And in fairness, going by what he said in the interview, they're making some progress.

I think you forget just how crazy it is to have a public pandemic and a cyber attack of the scale of the one the HSE suffered at the same time.

When you're in it, like we all knew individually the scale of both of those things, but you kind of forget a few years on.

Either of those is like a defining thing for a