Phil Barden

Okay, all right.

Indeed.

They did Orange Tuesdays, wasn't it, with free cinema tickets?

Oh, yeah.

We're delaying.

Let's hear the mistake.

Yeah, true.

No one can hear you, Phil.

Yeah, it sounds like the ad agency could do with a couple of behavioural scientists on their staff for the sounds of it.

Those two executions.

Are we, are we getting more sophisticated?

I mean, I assume this was a few years ago now, you know, it,

We've done a few behavioural science conversations on the show and the impression I'm getting is brands and agencies are becoming more aware of this stuff.

It's not just a kind of, as you say, intuitively just believing this is what people will think.

I mean, what's your experience of that?

Are brands more open to using behavioural science?

Wow, that's quite an accolade from Richard.

to translate it's amazing you got mark to write a sentence without swearing in it oh i had to edit it a lot he's brilliant mark so it'd be good to dive into some of the um some of the kind of the key lessons of the book particularly the kind of the value that marketers listening to this can take away and chris and i have kind of pulled out a few areas that really kind of grabbed us now the first is

was around category entry points and about the need for brands to become the first choice in the brain.

Do you want to start by kind of explaining what a category entry point is in the world of marketing and then dive into some of those biases, I suppose, that can help influence the brand in that context?