Phil Liu

I think that's the interesting part of our own story is that, um, I met my co-founder at the whole working space that I created in complexity, uh, in 2012.

And, uh, so my co-founder were the absolutely best like developer I knew at the time designer at the time.

And I knew I wanted to work with them.

Right.

Um, and, uh,

At the co-working space, I was actually making money from like a really, from a game portal I created when I was a teen, a French game portal I created when I was a teen.

And, you know, just like ramen money, ramen profitable money, like a few Ks a year, just being able to pay the apartment and the food.

And I lived basically with that much money for 10 years, like really like student salary.

And I really...

start to work on many different projects and the first one i created was a game jam festival so i wanted to be a game developer at that time okay so i decided to create like a game jam so the idea was try and move your mic so that it's not rubbing against your shirt we're getting audio feedback oh sorry yeah you want to start it over no keep going okay game developer

Yeah, game developers.

I created a game festival, actually.

So the idea was I wanted to meet other game developers.

And so I went to the mayor, told him about the idea, thought it was a great idea, decided to fund the project.

So we made that great festival for five years.

And making no money whatsoever, but just having fun.

my initial the initial reason i created that festival was just to meet developers but at the end of the day it was mostly just organizing the festival and never really meeting anyone and uh but the one thing that that festival

teach me it's like uh not not the one thing that the festival teach me but um hey sorry i just want to start over it's really uh do you mind like uh no no no listen it's a conversation man you don't need to be nervous there's no we don't need to start over i mean so you have a game festival the game festival revenue is basically what enabled you and your co-founder to have a little cash runway to build missive app those first couple years is that right

It's more complex than that.

I'll put it pretty simply.