Pia Sinha

Yeah, and he's right. If you got sentenced to under four years, you were released at your 50% mark anyway. So halfway point. So you're getting 10% earlier. There's not actually a lot in the scheme of things.

Yeah, and he's right. If you got sentenced to under four years, you were released at your 50% mark anyway. So halfway point. So you're getting 10% earlier. There's not actually a lot in the scheme of things.

And they do.

And they do.

And the probation crisis now, because you're moving the prison crisis into probation crisis. You've now suddenly got huge numbers of early released prisoners that are going to be on the caseloads of probation who are completely stretched as well.

And the probation crisis now, because you're moving the prison crisis into probation crisis. You've now suddenly got huge numbers of early released prisoners that are going to be on the caseloads of probation who are completely stretched as well.

It's partly that and it's a big part. And I think, so we visited Holland a few months ago, a group of us, and we were looking at what they had done. They have successfully managed to reduce their prison population to such a point that they're having to, they've got empty prisons.

It's partly that and it's a big part. And I think, so we visited Holland a few months ago, a group of us, and we were looking at what they had done. They have successfully managed to reduce their prison population to such a point that they're having to, they've got empty prisons.

And one of the things that they said is that, and they've got a right-wing government recently appointed, so they were concerned about what the implications of that would be. They said, but the way that the relationship between the politicians and the civil servants work is that the politicians don't interfere with civil service duties. They respect their neutrality and their independence. Right.

And one of the things that they said is that, and they've got a right-wing government recently appointed, so they were concerned about what the implications of that would be. They said, but the way that the relationship between the politicians and the civil servants work is that the politicians don't interfere with civil service duties. They respect their neutrality and their independence. Right.

and they don't tell them what they need to do. Whereas here, you've got a lot of political interference. And that then starts, you know, the tail wags the dog. And then when you play into it, the populism factor or the Daily Mail test, The driving force for why politicians might interfere in civil service business is because of how it might appear to voters.

and they don't tell them what they need to do. Whereas here, you've got a lot of political interference. And that then starts, you know, the tail wags the dog. And then when you play into it, the populism factor or the Daily Mail test, The driving force for why politicians might interfere in civil service business is because of how it might appear to voters.

Yes, and the impact that will have on their future careers. So it's using the wrong optics, but that certainly seems to play a part.

Yes, and the impact that will have on their future careers. So it's using the wrong optics, but that certainly seems to play a part.

It does. And it's hugely expensive to build more prisons. I think at the rate of the prison population, the way it's going, I think that some clever statistician has worked out, you've got to build a new prison every two and a half years, which you can't do, which is crazy. And I think that at the moment, the position that they found themselves in, you know, you've You've got experience.

It does. And it's hugely expensive to build more prisons. I think at the rate of the prison population, the way it's going, I think that some clever statistician has worked out, you've got to build a new prison every two and a half years, which you can't do, which is crazy. And I think that at the moment, the position that they found themselves in, you know, you've You've got experience.

I have experience of being in Victorian prisons. I mean, they're awful. They're crumbling and they are disgusting. And the squalor that Charlie Taylor talks about is true. So you do need to build new prisons, but it needs to be new prisons to close the old ones. And that makes sense. Or re-roll some of the prisons.

I have experience of being in Victorian prisons. I mean, they're awful. They're crumbling and they are disgusting. And the squalor that Charlie Taylor talks about is true. So you do need to build new prisons, but it needs to be new prisons to close the old ones. And that makes sense. Or re-roll some of the prisons.

You know, the women population, you know, reducing the women's population significantly. 60% of women are in there for non-violent offences. Decriminalise some of that. Give them the early intervention that they need to address those issues and re-roll some of the women's prisons. So they are much more creative ways of... getting you the capacity that you need without the expense.

You know, the women population, you know, reducing the women's population significantly. 60% of women are in there for non-violent offences. Decriminalise some of that. Give them the early intervention that they need to address those issues and re-roll some of the women's prisons. So they are much more creative ways of... getting you the capacity that you need without the expense.