Rachel Abrams

What was Europe's reaction to Trump when he first came into office with all of this tough talk?

But at this point in time, they've had two U.S. presidents from different political parties, both telling Europe, you guys need to step it up. And at the same time, Europe is also seeing this real existential threat from Russia. So I just sort of wonder if all of this should have made defense more of an urgent priority for Europe.

But at this point in time, they've had two U.S. presidents from different political parties, both telling Europe, you guys need to step it up. And at the same time, Europe is also seeing this real existential threat from Russia. So I just sort of wonder if all of this should have made defense more of an urgent priority for Europe.

So, Mark, you've explained to us how Trump is taking a fundamentally different approach to the U.S. 's relationship with Europe in his second term. How has Europe reacted to all of this?

So, Mark, you've explained to us how Trump is taking a fundamentally different approach to the U.S. 's relationship with Europe in his second term. How has Europe reacted to all of this?

Yeah, because you've got all these countries with their own priorities, their own politics, their own needs, different economies, and they all have to come together and agree to make this massive pivot.

Yeah, because you've got all these countries with their own priorities, their own politics, their own needs, different economies, and they all have to come together and agree to make this massive pivot.

Right. Fighter jets, military submarines, these are not things that just materialize overnight, let alone the entire military apparatus for a whole continent. It's just this massive game of catch-up that Europe is playing right now.

Right. Fighter jets, military submarines, these are not things that just materialize overnight, let alone the entire military apparatus for a whole continent. It's just this massive game of catch-up that Europe is playing right now.

And what about the economic aspect to all of this? Because as you told us, the trade ties are at the heart of the relationship between the U.S. and Europe.

And what about the economic aspect to all of this? Because as you told us, the trade ties are at the heart of the relationship between the U.S. and Europe.

You know, I feel like the theme of this entire week has been Trump tearing up relationships with allies all over the world. And we've been talking a lot on the show about how these allies have responded, like whether they try to repair these relationships or not. And so I think that that's the question here also.

You know, I feel like the theme of this entire week has been Trump tearing up relationships with allies all over the world. And we've been talking a lot on the show about how these allies have responded, like whether they try to repair these relationships or not. And so I think that that's the question here also.

Are the Europeans doing anything to try and repair this relationship or are they just kind of moving on?

Are the Europeans doing anything to try and repair this relationship or are they just kind of moving on?

I guess I also just wonder about the implications of all this fracturing for the U.S. Because I know you said that even though the U.S. has been footing the bill for Europe's military security, the arrangement did really have a lot of benefits for the United States, too.

I guess I also just wonder about the implications of all this fracturing for the U.S. Because I know you said that even though the U.S. has been footing the bill for Europe's military security, the arrangement did really have a lot of benefits for the United States, too.

So what you're saying is that this could basically push Europe into the hands of one of America's adversaries, China, which is kind of confusing because Trump very much seems like he wants to contain China so that they don't overtake the U.S. And so on the one hand, maybe it makes sense to make Europe pay its own way and be less dependent on the U.S.

So what you're saying is that this could basically push Europe into the hands of one of America's adversaries, China, which is kind of confusing because Trump very much seems like he wants to contain China so that they don't overtake the U.S. And so on the one hand, maybe it makes sense to make Europe pay its own way and be less dependent on the U.S.

And yes, of course, we have more resources to spend at home in turn. But on the other hand, it would seem like the U.S. would potentially be giving away this extremely valuable relationship with Europe to China.