Rachel Abrams

So, David, besides all of the mistakes that you uncovered, when you step back and you look at this wall of receipts, what is the bigger picture here? Like, what does all of this tell us about the larger project that is Doge?

So then this is a view also into the ideology of Doge, or maybe the Trump administration, but it also appears to be a show of force, actually. Shuttering an entire agency seemingly overnight sends quite a strong message about how power will be wielded in this administration.

So then this is a view also into the ideology of Doge, or maybe the Trump administration, but it also appears to be a show of force, actually. Shuttering an entire agency seemingly overnight sends quite a strong message about how power will be wielded in this administration.

But if this is about telegraphing and using Doge as this kind of instrument of political pressure, as you're describing, and cultural change, I just sort of wonder how you reconcile that with what you told us earlier, where these agencies are kind of duping Doge and doing just enough to appease them, basically, but not really taking seriously this mandate to cancel a bunch of government contracts or other types of work.

But if this is about telegraphing and using Doge as this kind of instrument of political pressure, as you're describing, and cultural change, I just sort of wonder how you reconcile that with what you told us earlier, where these agencies are kind of duping Doge and doing just enough to appease them, basically, but not really taking seriously this mandate to cancel a bunch of government contracts or other types of work.

Like, does that reveal... the doge in some way is not going to necessarily be all that effective.

Like, does that reveal... the doge in some way is not going to necessarily be all that effective.

And the fear, of course, is that if Elon Musk does not give up, he and Doge are basically going to take a wrecking ball to the federal government. I mean, they already kind of have, right? We've already seen these massive cuts. But as they continue, they might end up cutting unnecessary waste, but may also cut things that really create pain for not just employees, but the general public.

And the fear, of course, is that if Elon Musk does not give up, he and Doge are basically going to take a wrecking ball to the federal government. I mean, they already kind of have, right? We've already seen these massive cuts. But as they continue, they might end up cutting unnecessary waste, but may also cut things that really create pain for not just employees, but the general public.

Because, as you explained, Doge doesn't... really seem to know the ins and outs of government, and they're already making all of these kind of very simple mistakes. And who knows if they can actually fix things that they broke. But just to play devil's advocate, No one gave Elon Musk the benefit of the doubt when he bought Twitter and basically slashed his way through it.

Because, as you explained, Doge doesn't... really seem to know the ins and outs of government, and they're already making all of these kind of very simple mistakes. And who knows if they can actually fix things that they broke. But just to play devil's advocate, No one gave Elon Musk the benefit of the doubt when he bought Twitter and basically slashed his way through it.

Everybody said he doesn't know what he's doing. He's cutting too much. He's not leaving enough people behind to leave this thing operational. And obviously, lo and behold, Twitter is still up and running. So I just wonder if there's some bigger lesson to take from that.

Everybody said he doesn't know what he's doing. He's cutting too much. He's not leaving enough people behind to leave this thing operational. And obviously, lo and behold, Twitter is still up and running. So I just wonder if there's some bigger lesson to take from that.

Right, because, like, as you're pointing out, voters didn't necessarily want some of these cuts to affect them in the ways that potentially they could, because Elon Musk is getting access to all kinds of payment information, data information, and nobody really knows what's going to be affected by that.

Right, because, like, as you're pointing out, voters didn't necessarily want some of these cuts to affect them in the ways that potentially they could, because Elon Musk is getting access to all kinds of payment information, data information, and nobody really knows what's going to be affected by that.

Right, because even for Trump voters who might have wanted smaller government, more transparency in what the government spends its money on, there's definitely a tension, it would seem, between those priorities and what we're seeing with Doge, which is only a tiny fraction of what they claim they're up to, which makes you just sort of wonder what else is going on that we really don't have a window into right now.

Right, because even for Trump voters who might have wanted smaller government, more transparency in what the government spends its money on, there's definitely a tension, it would seem, between those priorities and what we're seeing with Doge, which is only a tiny fraction of what they claim they're up to, which makes you just sort of wonder what else is going on that we really don't have a window into right now.

David, thank you so much.

David, thank you so much.

On Monday morning, Doge deleted hundreds of additional mistakes found on its website, erasing $4 billion in savings that the group claimed to have found in government spending. It was the second time in a week that some of the biggest alleged savings were removed.