Rachel Abrams

Right. It's not just like money and time and child care, which I guess is maybe a form of money and time, but it's also about privacy. Who needs to be involved in this process? Who do you have to tell? Who needs to know about something that is, for many women, very deeply private?

Those pills, just to be clear, are the drugs mifepristone and misoprostol.

Those pills, just to be clear, are the drugs mifepristone and misoprostol.

So instead of providers just treating women who come to their states where abortion is legal, what you've described is abortion providers essentially bringing the abortion to these women in their states where abortion is not legal. And I think that sounds pretty risky for the providers, no?

So instead of providers just treating women who come to their states where abortion is legal, what you've described is abortion providers essentially bringing the abortion to these women in their states where abortion is not legal. And I think that sounds pretty risky for the providers, no?

I know, Pam, that we've said on the show before that since Dobbs, abortions have actually gone up, which feels kind of surprising. Is this the reason why?

I know, Pam, that we've said on the show before that since Dobbs, abortions have actually gone up, which feels kind of surprising. Is this the reason why?

We'll be right back. Pam, tell us about the case that you mentioned before the break, the one that anti-abortion activists have been waiting for. Who was involved? What was it about?

We'll be right back. Pam, tell us about the case that you mentioned before the break, the one that anti-abortion activists have been waiting for. Who was involved? What was it about?

So Dr. Carpenter's strategy is essentially trust the SHIELD law and ignore what's happening in Texas. So what is Texas's strategy to get her to pay the fine?

So Dr. Carpenter's strategy is essentially trust the SHIELD law and ignore what's happening in Texas. So what is Texas's strategy to get her to pay the fine?

Wait, I'm a little surprised to hear that a local clerk would know about this law and also be able to like unilaterally stand up to a judgment like this. Should I be surprised or is that just ignorance on my part?

Wait, I'm a little surprised to hear that a local clerk would know about this law and also be able to like unilaterally stand up to a judgment like this. Should I be surprised or is that just ignorance on my part?

And what about the other case against Dr. Carpenter that you mentioned? What's that one about?

And what about the other case against Dr. Carpenter that you mentioned? What's that one about?

Which, as you've told us, is going to be hard to execute from a blue state that has a shield law.

Which, as you've told us, is going to be hard to execute from a blue state that has a shield law.

I actually want to ask you about that shot across the bow thing because I'm really curious how people in the abortion access space are interpreting what's happening with these two cases. Because in both of them, it feels like at least for now, New York shield law is kind of standing in the way of Texas and Louisiana prevailing. But...

I actually want to ask you about that shot across the bow thing because I'm really curious how people in the abortion access space are interpreting what's happening with these two cases. Because in both of them, it feels like at least for now, New York shield law is kind of standing in the way of Texas and Louisiana prevailing. But...

As you've said, the anti-abortion activists are trying to use these cases to challenge the shield law in New York. And so I'm curious, what is the next step for Texas and Louisiana to potentially continue to challenge this?