Rachel Abrams

Right. And it feels worth noting, actually, that these aggressive tactics kind of come back to this whole messaging element of the administration's tactic here. Like they're trying to send a message that we will come for you, we will find you.

And that also helps kind of put the fear into people that would lead them to self-deport, which is another huge element to the administration's approach to all of this. And it feels like this is all much broader than just what's happening at Columbia.

And that also helps kind of put the fear into people that would lead them to self-deport, which is another huge element to the administration's approach to all of this. And it feels like this is all much broader than just what's happening at Columbia.

Is there some advantage to targeting students in particular or people who are here on student visas or green cards?

Is there some advantage to targeting students in particular or people who are here on student visas or green cards?

It really feels ironic the way that you're explaining it, that the people that are most deportable are actually people that are in the system, following the rules, going through the procedures, as opposed to people who are undocumented. It also feels worth saying that these schools where ICE is targeting students, they don't really seem to be going out of their way to fight it.

It really feels ironic the way that you're explaining it, that the people that are most deportable are actually people that are in the system, following the rules, going through the procedures, as opposed to people who are undocumented. It also feels worth saying that these schools where ICE is targeting students, they don't really seem to be going out of their way to fight it.

At this point, does it feel like the Trump administration's arrest of these students will hold up an immigration court? Like, basically, are these laws, which in some cases are arcane or kind of obscure, do you think that those will be compelling enough?

At this point, does it feel like the Trump administration's arrest of these students will hold up an immigration court? Like, basically, are these laws, which in some cases are arcane or kind of obscure, do you think that those will be compelling enough?

I mean, that's actually something that I wanted to ask you about, because we've talked a lot so far about how some of these cases feel surprising or extreme. But I just want to make sure I understand, how do these cases fit into what we've seen historically?

I mean, that's actually something that I wanted to ask you about, because we've talked a lot so far about how some of these cases feel surprising or extreme. But I just want to make sure I understand, how do these cases fit into what we've seen historically?

I realize that the government might claim that the people it is targeting, in some cases at least, are supporting terrorist activity. And so it's totally fair to use the language of the 9-11 terrorists. But it really feels like a huge stretch to say that somebody who wrote an op-ed is comparable to somebody who flies a plane into the World Trade Center.

I realize that the government might claim that the people it is targeting, in some cases at least, are supporting terrorist activity. And so it's totally fair to use the language of the 9-11 terrorists. But it really feels like a huge stretch to say that somebody who wrote an op-ed is comparable to somebody who flies a plane into the World Trade Center.

And so it can't help but feel like this is not as much about terrorism as it is about free speech. And if that is the case, and if you agree with that premise, it feels like we are escalating in one direction. And I am curious what you think that that crackdown looks like to you in the next four years.

And so it can't help but feel like this is not as much about terrorism as it is about free speech. And if that is the case, and if you agree with that premise, it feels like we are escalating in one direction. And I am curious what you think that that crackdown looks like to you in the next four years.

Hamed, thank you so much for your time.

Hamed, thank you so much for your time.

Here's what else you need to know today. President Trump said in an interview with NBC on Sunday that he was, quote, It was the most serious he's been about an idea that he's mused about in the past, and it would run afoul of the 22nd Amendment. But Trump said that there were, quote, methods to extend his presidency.

Here's what else you need to know today. President Trump said in an interview with NBC on Sunday that he was, quote, It was the most serious he's been about an idea that he's mused about in the past, and it would run afoul of the 22nd Amendment. But Trump said that there were, quote, methods to extend his presidency.

President Trump also told NBC News that he would not fire anyone involved in a group chat that inadvertently disclosed plans for airstrikes on Yemen to a journalist. Today's episode was produced by Sydney Harper, Jessica Chung, Shannon Lin, Carlos Prieto, and Rochelle Boncha. It was edited by MJ Davis-Lynn, Paige Cowett, and Brendan Klinkenberg.