Rachel Abrams

They should not need to rely on the federal government.

Right, you can't just go to the bank and say, I have something I want to research, give me $100 million, please.

Right, you can't just go to the bank and say, I have something I want to research, give me $100 million, please.

And what does that new realignment look like and what is driving it?

And what does that new realignment look like and what is driving it?

You're basically saying that there are two competing visions. And I'm kind of wondering what the divide is here, because you had mentioned at one point that some of this tension is ideological. So is there, for example, a vision that is coming from the left?

You're basically saying that there are two competing visions. And I'm kind of wondering what the divide is here, because you had mentioned at one point that some of this tension is ideological. So is there, for example, a vision that is coming from the left?

And why is that exactly?

And why is that exactly?

It's gobbledygook. Yeah.

It's gobbledygook. Yeah.

I do wonder if one of the reasons that universities are struggling to make a case for themselves is that they do need to be reformed. Like any major institution with a multi-billion dollar budget probably does have some bloat and inefficiencies here and there. But this conversation does feel connected to

I do wonder if one of the reasons that universities are struggling to make a case for themselves is that they do need to be reformed. Like any major institution with a multi-billion dollar budget probably does have some bloat and inefficiencies here and there. But this conversation does feel connected to

wider conversations we've been having recently on the show about government efficiency, like cutting federal agencies, for example. Like, sure, these places could probably be run better, but is it necessary to just gut them wholesale?

wider conversations we've been having recently on the show about government efficiency, like cutting federal agencies, for example. Like, sure, these places could probably be run better, but is it necessary to just gut them wholesale?

You know, it really feels like we are in a moment where the kind of existential fear that you described, it's allowing the Trump administration to wring some pretty stunning concessions from institutions that traditionally have prided themselves on their independence.

You know, it really feels like we are in a moment where the kind of existential fear that you described, it's allowing the Trump administration to wring some pretty stunning concessions from institutions that traditionally have prided themselves on their independence.

And I wonder how the people that you are talking to within academia are viewing what's happening to them within this broader context.

And I wonder how the people that you are talking to within academia are viewing what's happening to them within this broader context.

Because these universities might have just calculated that it's just not worth fighting. They don't stand a chance.