Rachel Carlson

And Mary Louise, thank you so much for joining us today.

It was my total pleasure as always.

And for more science stories just like this one, follow Shortwave on whatever app you're listening to.

I produced this episode with Jordan Marie Smith and Hannah Chin.

It was edited by Christopher Intagliata, William Troop, and Rebecca Ramirez.

And I'm Rachel Carlson.

Thanks for listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

Hey, Rachel.

Hey, Emily.

So I am here today to talk to you about something becoming more popular.

It's called kratom or kratom.

People pronounce it both ways, but a lot of the sources I talked to said kratom.

So I think that's what we'll stick with for this episode.

Kratom is derived from tree leaves.

It's been used for centuries in Southeast Asia, mostly Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand.

for energy and to treat pain.

But in the U.S., it's sort of an umbrella term that includes a bunch of different products like teas, pills, extracts, synthetic goods that all vary in strength depending on how they're made.

It's kind of like when someone says cannabis products, that could mean whole leaf or extracts from the leaves or synthetic products.

Okay, so the term kratom could actually mean a bunch of different things?

Yeah, I've heard it referred to as a drug, as a supplement, as an ingredient.