Ralph Blumenthal
Appearances
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
But something happened in December of 2017, which kind of threw a monkey wrench into that whole thing when the New York Times ran this blockbuster front page story about a secret government-funded investigation into UFOs. Included in that story was the now-famous Tic Tac case that you and I had discussed on the air prior to December of 2017.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
When this story comes across your desk, 2017, you were already sort of down the UFO rabbit hole. You'd been working on a project that made you somewhat familiar with the subject and the depth and breadth of it. A book that we're going to talk about today called The Believer about Dr. John Mack. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got on the trail of John Mack?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Former Navy ace David Fravor was a primary witness for the time story, and it was like a hydrogen bomb went off. And there's before the Times story and after the Times story. Those are two different ages. And we are still dealing with the fallout from that explosion. Three journalists worked on that story. Of course, Helene Cooper, who was a veteran Washington correspondent.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
You know, one of the reasons we want to talk to you now, Ralph, is because, you know, partially in reaction to your 2017 story in The Times, people are chasing government secrets, crash retrievals, secret technology, the race for that technology.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
And the focus is always on, seems to be on shiny objects up there in the sky and not on the personal encounters that people have been reporting all over the planet. The kind of things that... that Dr. Mack investigated. In a sense, do you think that that is where the heart of this story is, as opposed to the technology itself?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Leslie Kane, our friend who has been researching UFOs, investigating UFO stories for a long time. And Ralph Blumenthal, who was just a veteran stalwart of the times. He'd been there for more than 40 years. I think his gravitas did a lot of the heavy lifting to get that story and make it happen.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
I think Jeremy and I are as guilty as anyone of chasing the shiny object, you know, the paper trail. It's like when I started down this road, chasing the paper trail, that's something a journalist can do, you know, dig into records and file a FOIA request, talk to people who are working on these programs. That's where the bulk of the public attention seems to be these days.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
But I think you could make the argument, and probably Dr. Mack would agree, that the heart of the matter is these encounters. That whatever this intelligence is, interacting with humans, one-on-one, sometimes with small groups, that seems to be at the core of what's been going on for maybe forever.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
So perhaps tell us a little bit about Dr. John Mack. You don't hear his name in UFO world all that much anymore, but really you should. I mean, he was a trailblazer. He was courageous, brilliant, mercurial. Your book, The Believer, you can almost have a subtitle of sex, drugs, rock and roll. I mean, this guy was an interesting character.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Of course, Ralph, as we know, has already been down the UFO rabbit hole for a couple of years, working on a book about Dr. John Mack. And that's a That's a name we don't hear much with all the debates about secret programs and crash retrievals and whistleblowers and all the mess in Congress. We don't hear about Dr. Mack, but he blazed a path.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
His story kind of gets lost in all the muck of modern ufology, but it's really an important one. Wouldn't you agree?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
I get the sense that you really learned so much about him, and you came to like him and admire him, even though you didn't get to meet him.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Yeah, your book is powerful. It doesn't paint him as a saint. It's warts and all. You include the warts to some degree.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Well, let's go into some of the criteria that he developed, because over time, he developed sort of a checklist of criteria that sort of, all right, if you're going to try to explain these things away as mental illness or something else, you have to count for X, Y, Z, right?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
He is the real deal. The book that he wrote about Dr. Mac is this one. It's called The Believer, Alien Encounters, Hard Science and the Passion of John Mac. That title, The Believer, is a little bit controversial. And I hope we get a chance to talk to Ralph about why he chose it. But let's bring him on.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
there are some key dates, you know. 1947, when Kenneth Arnold and Roswell both happened. 1969, the so-called end of government studies when Project Blue Book was closed down. And 2017, when the New York Times uncorked a front-page blockbuster story by Ralph Blumenthal, Leslie Kane, and Helene Cooper about secret government investigations into UFOs. Ralph Blumenthal, it's great to see you.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
It was interesting, the title of your book again, The Believer. The first time I met Dr. Mack, it was early 90s at a conference, a UFO conference in the Ozarks. And I asked him about that label. And he bristled a little bit and said, I'm not a believer. This is science. I'm going about this as a scientist and a researcher in the correct way. Why did you settle on that title?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
He put everything on the line, his reputation, his stature at Harvard, everything on the line in order to pursue understanding. As you document in your book, he got in a lot of trouble at Harvard and went through like a 15-month long inquisition, in essence. Harvard, of course, a place, as you write, has been known for cutting edge, out there kind of research for forever.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
And here they are reacting to his increasing public profile on this abduction phenomena. And they initiated sort of a secret tribunal. Can you tell us, walk us through that part of the story?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
You're still probably dealing with the fallout from that story, aren't you?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
You know, when you and I have talked before, I have sort of asked and poked a little bit about how heavy a lift that was for the three of you. And looking at the history of the New York Times, I mean, for 50 years, they've been pretty darn hostile to the UFO story in general.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Can you give us a little insight on how heavy a lift that was, what you had to go through to get that story published at all, let alone on the front page?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
You know, I'm thinking about what it would have been like if you had known about OSAP, Skinwalker Ranch, all that crazy stuff. Would you have been able to tell your editors about it and get the story on it? Because I'm thinking, you know, I've talked to Leslie. Jeremy and I have spoken with Leslie Kane. And she said if we had included all that stuff, they would have kicked us out.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
I'm not sure that story would have been published.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, joined by my colleague, Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy, how you doing?
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Good. You know, as we have talked about many times, UFOs and big time journalism are kind of like oil and water. They don't really mix, or at least that's the way it's been for decades. I mean, major news media outlets like the New York Times, Washington Post, CBS News have been overtly hostile to UFOs over the years and to UFO researchers and to UFO claims.
WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
There are some key dates, you know, 1947 when Kenneth Arnold and Roswell both happened. 1969, the so-called end of government studies when Project Blue Book was closed down. And 2017, when the New York Times uncorked a front page blockbuster story by Ralph Blumenthal, Leslie Kane and Helene Cooper. about secret government investigations into UFOs.