WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp
KABOOM! The Explosive UFO Story That Changed The World - Guest : Ralph Blumenthal (PART 1)
Tue, 11 Mar 2025
In the eight decades since the modern UFO era began, few dates are as monumentally important as Dec. 16, 2017. That is when The New York Times published a blockbuster story about a secretive government investigation into alarming and ongoing encounters between U.S. military units and unidentified machines of unknown origin - machines that appear to be far more advanced than any technology known to exist on Earth. The fact that The New York Times, regarded as "the paper of record" and possibly the most respected news platform in the country, plastered the UFO exposé on the front page of its Dec. 17 edition sent shockwaves through American journalism, grabbed the attention of Congress, and reignited public interest in a subject that had been largely ignored or ridiculed - not only by The Times, but by nearly every major news organization in the Western world. The ripple effects from that report are still unfolding more than seven years later. The three journalists who worked on the story - Helene Cooper, Leslie Kean, and Ralph Blumenthal - somehow managed to overcome decades of government disinformation, scientific ridicule, and editorial scorn to get the story into the paper. Blumenthal, a brilliant, award-winning newsman, staked his reputation and career on that one report. How did he and his colleagues pull it off? What other secrets did they uncover that never made it into print? In a candid and highly personal conversation, Blumenthal reveals to Jeremy and George the difficulties that confronted the three journalists, including blowback from their colleagues, arguments with editors, and the conspiracy theories espoused by the loudest voices in the always rancorous UFO community. The story about AATIP, Tic Tac, Elizondo, Harry Reid, and other key players was not Blumenthal's entry point to the UFO debate. He was already investigating the life and career of a brilliant, mercurial, and flawed trailblazer - a Harvard psychiatrist named Dr. John Mack. Like the late Dr. Mack, Blumenthal suspects that the personal encounters between humans and non-humans, as reported by tens of thousands of people all over the world, might be far more important than the competition between world powers to master the technological secrets stashed deep inside the bowels of black-world programs. Follow Ralph's work here : https://RalphBlumenthal.com GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [email protected] ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2 Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : https://www.netflix.com/title/81674441 ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the bombshell UFO story published in 2017?
There are some key dates, you know, 1947 when Kenneth Arnold and Roswell both happened. 1969, the so-called end of government studies when Project Blue Book was closed down. And 2017, when the New York Times uncorked a front page blockbuster story by Ralph Blumenthal, Leslie Kane and Helene Cooper. about secret government investigations into UFOs.
We had an exclusive source, basically, who gave us slides that were shown to, you know, within the Pentagon, showing or naming, actually mentioning recovery, material recoveries of UFO remains, retrievals. This phenomenon does not lend itself to documentation for whatever reason.
You started to answer it, but I'd love to hear more. What did you leave out that you knew back in 2017 that you didn't have space to write about?
This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, joined by my colleague, Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy, how you doing?
Chapter 2: How did the New York Times cover UFOs before 2017?
I'm good. How you doing, man?
Good. You know, as we have talked about many times, UFOs and big time journalism are kind of like oil and water. They don't really mix, or at least that's the way it's been for decades. I mean, major news media outlets like the New York Times, Washington Post, CBS News have been overtly hostile to UFOs over the years and to UFO researchers and to UFO claims.
But something happened in December of 2017, which kind of threw a monkey wrench into that whole thing when the New York Times ran this blockbuster front page story about a secret government-funded investigation into UFOs. Included in that story was the now-famous Tic Tac case that you and I had discussed on the air prior to December of 2017.
Former Navy ace David Fravor was a primary witness for the time story, and it was like a hydrogen bomb went off. And there's before the Times story and after the Times story. Those are two different ages. And we are still dealing with the fallout from that explosion. Three journalists worked on that story. Of course, Helene Cooper, who was a veteran Washington correspondent.
Chapter 3: Who were the key journalists behind the 2017 UFO article?
Leslie Kane, our friend who has been researching UFOs, investigating UFO stories for a long time. And Ralph Blumenthal, who was just a veteran stalwart of the times. He'd been there for more than 40 years. I think his gravitas did a lot of the heavy lifting to get that story and make it happen.
Of course, Ralph, as we know, has already been down the UFO rabbit hole for a couple of years, working on a book about Dr. John Mack. And that's a That's a name we don't hear much with all the debates about secret programs and crash retrievals and whistleblowers and all the mess in Congress. We don't hear about Dr. Mack, but he blazed a path.
His story kind of gets lost in all the muck of modern ufology, but it's really an important one. Wouldn't you agree?
Yeah, I remember when I first started looking into the UFO subject, it really dawned on me. There was this guy named Dr. John Mack, who's head of Harvard Psychiatrics or whatever it was. And, you know, it's a guy that you could you could see was very serious and he was believable and you could trust him. And man, he looked at the aerial school encounters with the aliens.
Chapter 4: What challenges did the journalists face in publishing the UFO story?
I mean, with the craft that landed or there's like 60 kids. You and I got to know a couple of the children who are now adults who are closest to what they say were the aliens, right? So that's Liesel and Salma. So shout out to Liesel and Salma. I hope to have you on Weaponize at some point. But Dr. John Mack went down there. BBC covered it.
And that's when I first heard about his work coming into it. I was like, wow, let me look into this guy. And you told me. that a great book was written about his life by Ralph Blumenthal. And I thought that was so cool that he did a deep dive into this guy's history. And I really like Ralph over the years. Yes, he broke the 2017 New York Times story, and that was a huge push.
But just as a human being, as a reporter, as a journalist, just talking with him, he's the real deal, isn't he?
He is the real deal. The book that he wrote about Dr. Mac is this one. It's called The Believer, Alien Encounters, Hard Science and the Passion of John Mac. That title, The Believer, is a little bit controversial. And I hope we get a chance to talk to Ralph about why he chose it. But let's bring him on.
The following is a conversation with former New York Times journalist Ralph Blumenthal.
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Chapter 5: What was the significance of AATIP in the UFO investigation?
there are some key dates, you know. 1947, when Kenneth Arnold and Roswell both happened. 1969, the so-called end of government studies when Project Blue Book was closed down. And 2017, when the New York Times uncorked a front-page blockbuster story by Ralph Blumenthal, Leslie Kane, and Helene Cooper about secret government investigations into UFOs. Ralph Blumenthal, it's great to see you.
You're still probably dealing with the fallout from that story, aren't you?
Well, they keep putting up the original videos that we had, you know, the Navy videos. And, yeah, I mean, we keep getting told that we changed the paradigm. I try not to believe all that stuff, but it was satisfying.
You know, when you and I have talked before, I have sort of asked and poked a little bit about how heavy a lift that was for the three of you. And looking at the history of the New York Times, I mean, for 50 years, they've been pretty darn hostile to the UFO story in general.
Can you give us a little insight on how heavy a lift that was, what you had to go through to get that story published at all, let alone on the front page?
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Chapter 6: How did Ralph Blumenthal become involved in UFO research?
Well, as you know, George and Jeremy, timing has a lot to do with it, and we were fortunate to come in at a very good time. I mean, for example, today, with everything going on with Trump, it's not a great time to get UFO stories, UAP stories into the paper. There's just too much noise out there, too much competition.
So this happened to come at a good time, and I must say we had, you know, some very good people at the Times. I had left... the staff officially in 2009, but I kept up my contacts. And in 2017, the stars came into alignment. Dean Baquet was the executive editor. I went to him. I knew him. You know the story. Leslie had gone down to Washington, D.C.
and had this meeting with Lou Elizondo and others and learned about the secret program. We called it ATIP. We now know it really had a you know, earlier incarnation as OSAP, which you guys have never let me forget. But so she found out about this program and that, you know, the government was supposedly out of the UFO business with Blue Book at the end of 69. But of course, they weren't.
They kept the a very high level of interest. So Leslie found out about that and told me and even though I was off the staff, I had been working on my John Mack book since basically 2004.
So it was not a topic that was totally foreign to me but she surprised me by telling me that the government was very much in the UFO business and not only that but Lou Elizondo had submitted a letter of resignation to Jim Mattis, Defense Secretary, because he was so ticked off at the opposition he was getting. So there were a lot of elements to the story that were really of high interest.
So I took it to Dean Baquet, and to his credit, He jumped on it pretty quickly. He put us together with an editor for the Washington Bureau. We laid it out. We had everything on the record, which is something we can talk about. I mean, we were very insistent on, you know, the Times standards are very high. I don't have to tell you that for getting especially a story like this into the paper.
So we had it all on the record, named sources, no unnamed sources. And they put us together with Helene Cooper in the Washington Bureau, which was a big plus because she knew the Pentagon. Not that they would say anything, but at least we knew who to go to. So to answer your question more directly, it was not as difficult as you might think. Yes, the times had been very hostile traditionally.
to the whole UFO subject, with some notable exceptions. But this story sailed through and got on the front page on a Sunday. You couldn't ask for better play than that.
You know, I'm thinking about what it would have been like if you had known about OSAP, Skinwalker Ranch, all that crazy stuff. Would you have been able to tell your editors about it and get the story on it? Because I'm thinking, you know, I've talked to Leslie. Jeremy and I have spoken with Leslie Kane. And she said if we had included all that stuff, they would have kicked us out.
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Chapter 7: What personal encounters have been reported in UFO phenomena?
Can you just I think for our audience, it'd be interesting to know what is the process a little bit of vetting people? Like, how do you do that when you're when you're hearing these stories? And then you started to answer it. But I'd love to hear more. What did you leave out that you knew back in 2017 that you didn't have space to write about?
Well, we learned so much since, it's kind of hard to remember what we knew then. But, you know, as a journalist, you're always – I got to tell you, I got some advice from a colleague years ago when I got – this is a little sideline, but I got put on the –
media beat briefly when the media guy was going on vacation and it happened to come right at the time of a job action against the New York Times. So this thing drops into my lap. I'm the New York, I'm the media reporter when the Times is basically on strike. And how do you handle that kind of news about your employer? So this guy gave me a bit of advice.
He said, Ralph, don't write everything you know. And I took that to heart because I knew a lot of stuff about the times that I didn't put into that, you know, those stories about the job action. So it's always a selective process. So, you know, we know a lot of stuff, Leslie and I, as you guys know a lot of stuff. Not all of it is well sourced.
Chapter 8: How does the UFO phenomenon resist documentation?
Some of it you know on background, some of it you know off the record. Yeah, that comes into play. But we didn't know a lot of the things then that we know now. I mean, we made a lot of progress. This is something really worth noting that the government has come a long way from the days when, you know, it described anyone with a sighting as basically nuts.
Now they're saying they're encouraging military personnel to come forward with accounts. And so there's been a lot of change, you know, within the Pentagon. But I got to say that there was not a lot of stuff we knew that we kept out. We'd heard stories about retrievals, for example, but we fleshed a lot of that out since then. And you've tried to get that story on, right?
Well, we did, and we did get it in piecemeal. We did a story for The Times sometime later, a couple of years later, and we did get in the retrievals. It came in, if you remember the story, kind of obliquely. And a very good part of that story, we had actually slides naming recoveries.
We had an exclusive source, basically, who gave us slides that were shown to, you know, within the Pentagon showing or naming recoveries. actually mentioning recovery, material recoveries of UFO remains, retrievals. We got that into the Times, but the slides only got in with another story that we did about how we got the story.
So I guess in shorthand, the stuff gets in, but not always the way you want it to get in. And that was a particularly difficult lift, retrievals, as it remains.
Jeremy? Yeah, I'm just curious personally. I mean, you're a veteran journalist. You like George. You've broken stories across the board. You get into the UFO thing. What I'm curious about right now is what is the responsibility of a journalist when you obtain information like George and I have, like visual information? I struggle sometimes with knowing what the boundaries are to allow stuff out.
And you and I have had private conversations, Ralph, about this, struggling with how to report to the American people on something that is of value to the American people, but also staying within the confines of national security. Did you have to deal with any of that when it came to your 2017 article?
Well, as I said, I mean, there was not too much that we knew then that we've learned a lot since. But, you know, you raise an interesting point. How much do you put in? to a story, I would say that if you have it confirmed and you have it on the record with a name source, there's not much I would leave out. I'm not trying to spare the American people any hard evidence.
The problem is getting that hard evidence or at least getting people talking about it on the record. On the other hand, you're right. We were aware that this is a difficult subject. We didn't want to get too much ahead of ourselves. I mean, the basic news was important, that the Pentagon had a secret UFO unit. After years of denying an interest in the subject, the Pentagon was, in fact,
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