Randall Kennedy

And by the way, if you don't know what a yacht is, you can know what a yacht is without owning a yacht, okay?

And there's this denialism

that I think has really seeped into various conversations.

Yes.

And we see it in various ways.

So this attack on testing, it's not like I'm holding that some tests are not good tests.

I think we should be skeptical of everything.

But there are a lot of tests that, yeah, they tell us something all right.

They tell us who knows what.

And there's some people who are really dead set against testing because they're dead set against anything that might show a gap.

Well, I think, by the way, are there gaps?

Yeah, there are gaps.

And what we need to do is be cognizant of those gaps and do things to make it so that if there's a gap, if you're deficient, no shame in being deficient.

Heck, I'm deficient about a lot of things.

Let's, you know, let's learn so that I catch up.

But there's, you know, but I think sometimes there have been people who've been afraid of even acknowledging the gaps.

Yes.

You mentioned Michael Sandel.

He's a wonderful colleague, and he's a wonderful friend.

I've known him a long time.