Rev. James Martin

A lot of his critics said, oh, well, anything goes. It's just where we're going to listen to people. It's all about polls and opinions. But I think what they missed was that he really did trust the Holy Spirit active in the individual. So I think that, for me, encapsulates why people, I think, struggled with that. Because it is, you know, it's a challenge when you hear something like that.

A lot of his critics said, oh, well, anything goes. It's just where we're going to listen to people. It's all about polls and opinions. But I think what they missed was that he really did trust the Holy Spirit active in the individual. So I think that, for me, encapsulates why people, I think, struggled with that. Because it is, you know, it's a challenge when you hear something like that.

We need to meet people where they are. We need to listen to them. We need to see where the Holy Spirit is active. But To your point, he didn't want to move the church so far that he would break it.

We need to meet people where they are. We need to listen to them. We need to see where the Holy Spirit is active. But To your point, he didn't want to move the church so far that he would break it.

Yeah. I mean, you could say more broadly that concretely, you know, we were brought to a greater understanding of the importance of the human dignity of migrants and refugees, for example. I mean, there's no church teaching change in that. But to your point more specifically, for one thing, the catechism changed on the death penalty. It's now inadmissible. That's a small thing.

Yeah. I mean, you could say more broadly that concretely, you know, we were brought to a greater understanding of the importance of the human dignity of migrants and refugees, for example. I mean, there's no church teaching change in that. But to your point more specifically, for one thing, the catechism changed on the death penalty. It's now inadmissible. That's a small thing.

For another, early in his papacy, he said he wanted more, I remember this line, incisive roles created. for women in leadership positions, and now you have a woman who's the head of a Vatican dicastery or office. The governor of Vatican City is a woman, right? So I think there have been real changes, maybe not to the catechism, but changes in church practice.

For another, early in his papacy, he said he wanted more, I remember this line, incisive roles created. for women in leadership positions, and now you have a woman who's the head of a Vatican dicastery or office. The governor of Vatican City is a woman, right? So I think there have been real changes, maybe not to the catechism, but changes in church practice.

For LGBTQ people, I think there's been significant changes. The ones that are perhaps the most kind of juridical would be the allowance of blessing of same-sex couples under certain circumstances, right? I mean, before that document came out, you couldn't do it. After the document came out, you could do it. So that's a change.

For LGBTQ people, I think there's been significant changes. The ones that are perhaps the most kind of juridical would be the allowance of blessing of same-sex couples under certain circumstances, right? I mean, before that document came out, you couldn't do it. After the document came out, you could do it. So that's a change.

And then also something that's, I think, overlooked is his call for the decriminalization of homosexuality, right? Which I think in the West, people, you know, greeted with some shrugs, like, eh, big deal. But that's a big deal over in sub-Saharan Africa and Eastern Europe and Latin America, right?

And then also something that's, I think, overlooked is his call for the decriminalization of homosexuality, right? Which I think in the West, people, you know, greeted with some shrugs, like, eh, big deal. But that's a big deal over in sub-Saharan Africa and Eastern Europe and Latin America, right?

So, yeah, I don't think he set out to change the catechism, but I think he changed the conversation. And in a sense, in addition to these kind of specific things, I think that's a kind of change in teaching, right? I mean, to change the conversation and to change the approach and the tone is a kind of change in teaching.

So, yeah, I don't think he set out to change the catechism, but I think he changed the conversation. And in a sense, in addition to these kind of specific things, I think that's a kind of change in teaching, right? I mean, to change the conversation and to change the approach and the tone is a kind of change in teaching.

So I think, yeah, he disappointed conservatives, certainly in different aspects, and liberals, I think, who think he didn't go far enough. Yeah. But again, I came away from the Senate understanding anew, or maybe for the first time, the importance of church unity and what a difficult job he had.

So I think, yeah, he disappointed conservatives, certainly in different aspects, and liberals, I think, who think he didn't go far enough. Yeah. But again, I came away from the Senate understanding anew, or maybe for the first time, the importance of church unity and what a difficult job he had.

I think the basis, as we would both agree, would be the creed, for example. I mean, you're not going to change any obvious dogma. You're not going to say suddenly that Jesus, guess what, Jesus didn't rise from the dead. You're not going to say that. Yeah.

I think the basis, as we would both agree, would be the creed, for example. I mean, you're not going to change any obvious dogma. You're not going to say suddenly that Jesus, guess what, Jesus didn't rise from the dead. You're not going to say that. Yeah.

So we should start there because I think a lot of Catholics feel that, oh my gosh, Pope Francis was changing everything or anything goes, which is, you know, not accurate. I do think that that's a limit. I do think that church unity is a value, right? I mean, you know, Christ said that they all may be one. I think that's a value for us.

So we should start there because I think a lot of Catholics feel that, oh my gosh, Pope Francis was changing everything or anything goes, which is, you know, not accurate. I do think that that's a limit. I do think that church unity is a value, right? I mean, you know, Christ said that they all may be one. I think that's a value for us.