Rev. James Martin
speaker
109 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Apr 2025
last heard Apr 2025
Rev. James Martin’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Well, that's a really interesting question. We had an article in America Media by John Baldovin, who was a liturgical theologian that talked about the Latin Mass. And, you know, to go back to church unity, and, you know, I don't know if I would have made the same decision as the Pope, you know, in terms of the limiting. But, you know, I think he saw it as a threat to unity.
I think that's, you know, that was behind that document that he came out with. And so... If we're going to say that we need unity in terms of sexual teaching, right, and not breaking the church on that, I think he didn't want to break the church on that as well, on the Latin mass. That was his judgment. Yeah. So, like I said, I don't know if I would have done it exactly the same way.
Well, first of all, I think I may have said this to you before. I'm more traditional than you might think. That's the first thing. So devotion to the saints, to the blessed sacrament, to lords, too. So some of these things are right up my alley. You know, my general rule is whatever brings you closer to God. And if you like the Latin Mass, wonderful.
If you like to go to a Taizé service, wonderful. If you like San Egidio, I know this is all inside baseball stuff to non-Catholics, but wonderful. And it's not surprising that people would turn to more traditional ways of being Catholic and traditional rites, you know, in kind of times of uncertainty. I think there's a certain comfort to that. Interesting times. Interesting times.
There's a certain comfort to that. And I think it's great. Here's the dividing point for me. as long as people who say that don't say that other Catholics are somehow not Catholic. So I think as long as there's openness, right, to both sides, as long as you're not what a friend of mine calls a rigidarian, then I think it's great.
Look, I grew up in the 1960s, 1970s Catholic Church, which a lot of people deride as beige Catholicism, right? Felt banners. But you know what? It meant a lot to me, and it still means a lot to me. And I go back to my home parish, which is this big 1960s A-frame parish outside of Philadelphia, and I love it. And if that appeals to me, that's great.
If someone else goes to a high mass, a high solemn mass that's in Latin at some cathedral and that appeals to them, that's great. So I think the key is not cutting off the other side and really taking the other person's spirituality and faith seriously. And I do see that in Catholicism. I do see a lot of, you're not really Catholic if you do this or that.
And that's frustrating because the Catholic Church really should be Here comes everyone, particularly in spirituality. I'm really strong about that. I really hate when people say, you're not a good Catholic because you don't pray the rosary, or you're not a good Catholic because you don't go to Taizé services or San Egidio, right, or something that's a little more liberal.
You know, I hope not, given that we're speaking right after Easter and we've just welcomed... One would think there wouldn't be. But I really do think, for me, the trouble is when people say, because you don't do this, you're a bad Catholic. And it's basically because you don't do what I like doing. And that's really frustrating to me.
You know, and also, I'll just say, I mean, this is not to gather sympathy, but, you know, when I tell people that I love the rosary, I went to Lourdes, people kind of cock their head at me and say, how can you believe in that stuff? And I say, well, I'm Catholic. And that, to be kind of diminished that way is a very strange feeling.
Which is a good question. That's an easy question, actually, which is, you know, the Holy Spirit. Yes. Truly. I mean, the Holy Spirit holds the church together, and we have to believe that. And the Holy Spirit's guiding the church. We really have to believe that. Jesus Christ, who is present to us through the Spirit, holds us together. We believe that. So that's all true.
But in terms of the person.
Well, I would say the second part of that answer was the Pope and the primacy of St. Peter. And I think that's why it was so focused on unity, right? And all the different things we're talking about, sexual teaching, traditional Latin mass, you know, that's the constant theme of unity and hopefully the hierarchy. And hopefully our local priests and lay leaders.
Those are all kind of unifying forces, we hope. But really, the unifying person is the pope, which is, you know, that's what he was trying to do.
protestant churches could break up and split apart how much people who really disagree with each other inside catholicism tend to stay in catholicism yeah and i really do think that's less a political thing and more of a spiritual thing i think people really want to stay in the church because they believe in the catholic church they believe in the apostolic succession they believe in the pope they believe this goes back to saint peter i just think that's so powerful i mean it's in
Someone said to me recently or asked me recently, do you think there's going to be a schism because of homosexuality and the teaching of the church and same-sex unions and all that, the blessing stuff? And I just said, you know, these people who are sort of opposed to what the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith published. They want to be Catholic.
You know, they don't want to leave the church. Who wants to leave the church? So I think it's much more a spiritual question. And even when Pope Francis was asked, do you think there'll be a schism? He said, no, because I think he understood that. People don't want to leave. Why would they? They might want to see changes.
And the other thing is, you know, for priests and cardinals and members of religious order, we've also made promises and vows not to leave. Right. No, no.
That's a great question. I definitely think, you're right, that the bishops have less authority in the wake of the sex abuse crisis. I think the Pope still has a great deal of influence. And I think it's, as you were saying earlier, it's not just his words, but it's his deeds. I think that they can help, those kinds of gestures can help people understand Catholicism and Christianity more.
That's an influence, right? I think when he does speak out on the death penalty on migrants and refugees on the environment, I do think Catholics listen, maybe not to their local bishop. I've often had the experience of saying to someone, you know, I mean, both of us are very attentive to these things. I'll say, by the way, what diocese are you in? And they won't know.
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