Rich Roll

But until Noble came along, like I never thought like, well, you know.

How do you change?

There isn't any other option.

You just have to tolerate it.

They have all the leverage.

And then to realize, like you explained to me their margins and just how much they're gouging you and how difficult they make it for you to make any kind of switch or take back any of that power.

Well, it's acknowledging an incentive that actually works.

You know, the onus is on us.

It's sort of this bottom up thing as the end user.

to figure this out.

And there's all these apps.

We can grayscale our phone.

We're sort of acknowledging like we need these things in order to function in modern society, even though our relationship with them is unhealthy.

And so we try to protect ourselves with creating boundaries that we are constantly breaking and these apps to carve out time or block out our social media apps for periods throughout the day so that we can focus.

And that's fine.

But like money,

Yes.

Like, Oh, you're going to pay, like I'm actually going to save money or you're going to refund my money or, you know, like that is speaking an entirely different language.

Yes.

Mr. Andrew Yang, would you say that your relationship with your phone is intentional or reactive?