Rich Roll

Yeah.

You're forced to get out of your comfort zone and interact with people.

I think a lot of it

also has to do with the fact that nobody has them.

And that kind of mirrors Jonathan Haidt's research with schools.

It's not that kids are against a no phone policy.

They just don't want to be the only one.

So if you take the phone away from everyone, they're actually a lot happier and everybody's kind of flourishing on a whole new level.

So these phone free parties or whatever, these IRL events, like the fact that no one has it, that that's the normal appeal.

Yeah.

You talked about, I want to get into like other solutions.

So you mentioned like, oh, don't bring, you know, no phones for dinner, or you can do these, you can set up boundaries.

This is my deep work time, et cetera.

Or institute some kind of digital detox.

Like, do these ever work or are you just rubber band back to like your bad behavior?

I mean, it's sort of like an intermittent fast, I suppose, if you use food as an analogy, but-

we still find our way back to that compulsive behavior where we're just being impulsed almost, you know, against our will.

Negative incentives work.

Yeah, it's tough, man.

Like I'll create these rules like, well, there's a difference between using my phone to create something and using it to consume.