Rick Perry

And as I became convinced, one of the things that I will say that I've been open to change, just like criminal justice reform.

In the early 2000s, I was kind of like, lock their ass up, throw the key under the jail.

You know, you break the law in the state of Texas, here's how we treat you.

And I had a district judge in Fort Worth, John Crusoe,

A Democrat district judge who I knew and had been friends with, he said, Governor, we got a program here that allows these individuals who have broken the law.

They maybe got caught with an illegal substance or what have you.

And rather than sending them to jail, sending them to the penitentiary where they become professional criminals –

We give them a second chance.

We put them in a rehab program.

We put them in a treatment center.

We put them in a boot camp.

Give them these options rather than sending them to prison where they're going to become professional criminals and the recidivism rate is going to continue on.

I'm kind of like, nope.

I'm tough on crime.

That's what us Republicans do.

But it really got me thinking.

I mean, I am curious minded about concepts and ideas.

So that brought me to having conversations.

And, you know, long story short, that single conversation led to Texas leading the nation with criminal justice reform.

Texas Public Policy Foundation that now Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins was operating in the mid to late 2000s.