Rob, Luisa, and the 80000 Hours team

Is that sort of the case that the cultural disempowerment maybe like becomes most potent like further down the line?

So let's try another lens on this.

I think it seemed like, I guess, since the Industrial Revolution, that sort of liberalism and capitalism have really been on a roll to the point that people think of them, these are, like, very dominant ideologies in the current time.

And I guess that involves, you know, the ideology is you want political power to be widely distributed, right?

I guess you want to have a marketplace of ideas.

Disagreement is good.

We want to allow people to just like come up with whatever ideas they want and form their own judgments and their own opinions.

Competition in the economy is good.

We want to have lots of different companies trying to deliver potentially like quite similar or sometimes very different products and services, sometimes like similar ones in order to drive down the price.

We want to have competition in politics.

So we want to have like lots of different people's candidates standing for office and like people can decide whether they like them or not.

I guess, you know, people talk about the open society, open access orders.

We want to have, if like mistakes are being made, then we want like other, you know,

people from outside of the local system be able to object and say, no, things should be done differently.

I guess potentially you could acquire a company that you think is poorly managed or start a new political party to ouster people.

That whole mentality I think has been like much more dominant in like recent centuries than it was previously when people had, I guess, very different ideas about how humanity ought to be organized.

You think that that era is potentially, we're perhaps entering the twilight of liberalism, the twilight of like this sort of pluralistic order.

Maybe first, why do you think that liberalism and pluralism and capitalism have been so successful in recent times?

Yeah, I think this is an interesting issue because I feel the sort of liberal, libertarian, pro-capitalism perspective or ideology is so dominant among the kinds of clique that is developing AI and developing AGI.

And even the critics of that, that it's like almost hard to even imagine that there could be a different system or to think, well, maybe this won't be the most fit system or maybe it wasn't the best way of organizing or the most competitive way of organizing society in the past.