Rob Walling

And then Ali actually goes on to ask two or three more questions, which we can take in due time. But as someone with perfectionist tendencies... We laugh because you and I are both that way in certain areas.

And then Ali actually goes on to ask two or three more questions, which we can take in due time. But as someone with perfectionist tendencies... We laugh because you and I are both that way in certain areas.

Just Perfectionist Tendencies for short. What are we, like a third wave ska band?

Just Perfectionist Tendencies for short. What are we, like a third wave ska band?

I think that's it. You're the guy just dancing on stage. You know I love to dance. Tuba? No, drum major.

I think that's it. You're the guy just dancing on stage. You know I love to dance. Tuba? No, drum major.

And sax. And sax, I forgot that. Everything's in B-flat, people. You have to play it all in B-flat. Okay, so back to Ollie's insightful question. Perfectionist tendencies, which I think a lot of founders... not all, but a good chunk of founders become founders because they really want control over things, right?

And sax. And sax, I forgot that. Everything's in B-flat, people. You have to play it all in B-flat. Okay, so back to Ollie's insightful question. Perfectionist tendencies, which I think a lot of founders... not all, but a good chunk of founders become founders because they really want control over things, right?

They don't like a day job because they're ordered around and they work with people they don't want to work with and they can't hire and fire and they, but whatever, you know, and I want to control because if I can control everything, it will be better. And oftentimes that's true, but it doesn't scale.

They don't like a day job because they're ordered around and they work with people they don't want to work with and they can't hire and fire and they, but whatever, you know, and I want to control because if I can control everything, it will be better. And oftentimes that's true, but it doesn't scale.

You can't run, I say can't in quotes, you can't run a million dollar, $2 million error SaaS company with just you. At some point you have to let some stuff go. So To that point, how do you think about hiring people to do stuff that you're a perfectionist about and what qualities do you look for?

You can't run, I say can't in quotes, you can't run a million dollar, $2 million error SaaS company with just you. At some point you have to let some stuff go. So To that point, how do you think about hiring people to do stuff that you're a perfectionist about and what qualities do you look for?

I think it's a key differentiator you've made between delegating things that you really shouldn't be doing. I would include customer support in that. Now, in the early days, doing customer support is really helpful as a founder because you learn a ton. As you transition, I believe I did email support with Drip for three months, four months, and then we brought Andy in.

I think it's a key differentiator you've made between delegating things that you really shouldn't be doing. I would include customer support in that. Now, in the early days, doing customer support is really helpful as a founder because you learn a ton. As you transition, I believe I did email support with Drip for three months, four months, and then we brought Andy in.

He was doing part-time stuff, but he obviously is better at customer support than I am. And people say, well, I don't want to lose touch with my customers. It's like, yeah, Andy fed me all the feedback. Anything that was real feedback or like, ooh, this is coming up, you and I learned about it, you and I fixed it, right? So I would lump that in.

He was doing part-time stuff, but he obviously is better at customer support than I am. And people say, well, I don't want to lose touch with my customers. It's like, yeah, Andy fed me all the feedback. Anything that was real feedback or like, ooh, this is coming up, you and I learned about it, you and I fixed it, right? So I would lump that in.

But I like that differentiation of starting to figure out what is your zone of genius. Because just because you're a developer, not everyone listens to the show as a developer, but a lot, just because you're a developer doesn't necessarily mean that development and or product are your zone of genius.

But I like that differentiation of starting to figure out what is your zone of genius. Because just because you're a developer, not everyone listens to the show as a developer, but a lot, just because you're a developer doesn't necessarily mean that development and or product are your zone of genius.

you might find that you're really good at left-brain marketing, as folks like Ruben found out, as folks like I found out. Look, I've been writing code since I was eight years old, and I loved it, and I was a developer, and I identified as a developer.

you might find that you're really good at left-brain marketing, as folks like Ruben found out, as folks like I found out. Look, I've been writing code since I was eight years old, and I loved it, and I was a developer, and I identified as a developer.