Rob Walling

I mean, you may get an owner-level thinker at that, but in the hierarchy of job titles, these things have meaning, right?

There's entry-level, then there's individual contributors, and then there's supervisors, and then there's managers, directors, vice presidents.

C-level folks.

And I think generally if you want someone who's really going to take control of an entire area, entire business unit, entire, you know, whatever, you want them to take ownership, I think you're talking at director level or above.

And typically a certain salary is equated with that as well.

So identifying folks who are project or owner level thinkers really comes back to asking them questions about what have you done to drive projects in the past, right?

And what have you done to take ownership and...

grow something beyond what it is.

Like have a vision when you're looking ahead six months and have the incredible autonomy and decision-making power and potentially budgetary power to drive things forward.

You're not just asking them, but you're actually looking at their resume.

Like what have they actually done?

And then digging into, oh, you were on a team of like 300 people and you say that you drove these results.

What did you actually do?

What did you personally do versus the rest of your team?

Your marketing copy and your design is amazing.

Did you have a whole team doing that and you basically just project manage everything?

That's okay too because now you're a project manager.

But you get to know their skills.

There's the unspoken when you're speaking to someone, right?

It's how much energy do they have for something?