Rob Walsh

Yeah.

It's crazy.

I mean, I said I said if anyone spent that money down in Orlando, there is a stupid stick with your DNA all over it.

Here's the best advice I can say to Spelman.

The best advice out there for podcasting is inversely relational to the amount that you would spend for it.

OK, we've been having advertisers work with us for eight plus years.

And most of these advertisers have been where they have a custom URL and they can track the response and back month after month after month.

They know the ROI.

They can track it.

They see it.

And they're paying high CPMs because they know it works and they're getting a return on their investment at those high CPMs.

I mean, it's really from mentions.

I can tell you my show has had advertisers for years and years and years, and I've never even thought of doing that.

You do it strictly from the mention.

Just mention on the show and the URL in the show notes, and that's it.

I've never gone out and gamed an email.

As a matter of fact, I've never even put together an email list for my show, which I know people like, oh, you have to do that.

You know what?

Email lists work great when you're launching a new show.

You want to know the one thing that works when you're launching a new show?